Battling Addiction - Gambling, And Heavy Drinking || Justin

[00:00:01] Time is precious. Life is not just the passing of time. Life is not just the passing of time. Life is a collection of experiences, their frequency and their intensity. Now, here's a little story I got to tell you. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the show.

[00:00:30] This is Giants Amongst Us where we share in the unique human experience and where each and every time you plug in, you're going to hear real stories told by real people. People just like yourself.

[00:00:45] And right off the top, I hope this finds you in a good place. I hope this finds you in good spirits.

[00:00:51] And if not, well then maybe after listening to this show, you'll feel a little better about the day and do whatever it is you need to do to find it within yourself to keep on trucking.

[00:01:03] And for those of you plugging in and tuning in for the very first time, every time we share a story and an experience, these are testaments and examples of what the human spirit is capable of.

[00:01:17] These stories, they come from all walks of life. People who have had their own unique struggles in life and how they found the resources and tools they needed to start making some changes.

[00:01:28] Start working towards healing. Start letting go of the pain and moving forward in a more promising direction. So if you're feeling stuck like Chuck, if you're feeling like you're in a rut right now, let these stories remind you of the fact that things can't get better.

[00:01:44] It's going to take some doing. It's going to take some work, but you're worth it. Know that. So kick your feet up or do whatever it is you do as you let this play on in the background. Let's enjoy this experience together.

[00:01:59] Today Justin joins us and he's got a story to tell. Justin comes from a small town in Montana, population of about 300 people. And as a child throughout his childhood, he said things were lovely. He wouldn't change it for the world. He enjoyed it.

[00:02:15] It wasn't until his adolescence moving into high school that things started to get a little tricky in that small town of Montana caved in on him.

[00:02:25] You see Justin was on the receiving end of being bullied on account of rumors hearsay and false accusations of doing something that he said he took no part in.

[00:02:36] But that didn't matter. His peers, people from school, a big chunk of the town in his world at that time were after him. He was being threatened verbally, physically. He was being harassed, bullied, abused.

[00:02:51] All of these things he had to deal with as a teenager to the point where he stayed inside. He didn't go to school. He didn't want to go outside. He stayed put and this really damaged his spirit.

[00:03:02] It was to the point where he said a couple of times he tried to take his life, although in his words they weren't honest attempts.

[00:03:09] But it was to that extent. So we know the things that we go through, whether it be abuse, whether it be trauma, whether it be pain, whatever it is that isn't dealt with that has scarred us, has bruised us, has battered us.

[00:03:24] If we don't find a way to deal with it, it shows head if not in the present later on in years. And for Justin later on in life, he found himself struggling with alcohol.

[00:03:35] He found himself tangled up in that web of a gambling addiction, severing relationships, destroying his self-worth and self-esteem to the point where he just became sick of who he had become.

[00:03:49] He became sick of running from his pain, his trauma, everything that was tormenting him for so long because of what he went through as a teenager. He decided to get real with himself and take those necessary steps to start getting better.

[00:04:04] So it isn't all about the pain, it isn't all about the hurt. Justin is also going to share those segments in his life to where he started to get better. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, this is Justin and his story.

[00:04:21] Welcome back to the show. This is Giants Amongst Us where we share in the unique human experience. And today, we've got another guest. I'm happy to share another connection with everybody listening on the other end.

[00:04:35] So I'd like to welcome Justin to the show. Thank you very much for taking time out of your day. You could have been doing anything. You could have been anywhere but here we are having a little sit down. So welcome aboard my friend.

[00:04:49] Yeah, thanks for having me. I love being guests on these things. I've been on a few other ones as well and just something I love. So yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:04:57] Okay, right on, right on. So just to kick this thing off and for starters, you might share with us a little bit about where you come from and how it was for you growing up?

[00:05:09] Yeah, so I grew up in a really rural town in Montana, Drummond, Montana. The population was only 300. I would describe my childhood as... I wouldn't change my childhood with anybody. I just had a really good childhood.

[00:05:23] You know, we had the typical problems all kids have. Being a teenager was kind of a rough time for me. Really, really difficult time. But overall, I had a really good childhood. I moved into a bigger city, so to speak, Dear Lodge, Montana when I was 18 years old.

[00:05:39] The population was only 5,000 so we're still talking in a little tiny town. But it was much bigger than what I was used to. And yeah, I've just kind of been always just working and traveling and just trying to live my best life ever since.

[00:05:54] Yeah, how was... Now you said during your teenage years it was a bit rough and you had some patchy spots along the way. What were some things that you were dealing with that was hard on you?

[00:06:04] Yeah, you know I did the right around when I was a teenager. I met a girl and we started dating and things weren't going well. And in school there was this perception of me as like harming her and abusing her.

[00:06:21] And people had this perception of me and then it turned into bullying, you know? And people were trying to get me because I was supposedly abusing this woman or I guess this girl at the time.

[00:06:34] And I was scared. I was scared to go to school, I didn't want to. I would refuse. I ended up dropping out. I started getting into drugs and this was a teenager as a teenager.

[00:06:46] You know, I attempted suicide twice. Both attempts I definitely wouldn't say were honest attempts to die. I just was reaching out for help. And my mom took action and got me some help and things got better for a while.

[00:07:02] And then it got worse again as I got older. So it was just kind of like this back and forth. It wasn't until I was about 27 when I started getting my life back together.

[00:07:14] When I started to kind of realize that I need to take some action and start changing the direction of my life. So from pretty much 15 until I was about 27, my life was miserable. It really was.

[00:07:28] Man, so the bullying that you ended up being on the receiving end of because of these rumors or the gossip that was spread. This is in a town that was only 300 people, right? So I mean bad news travels fast.

[00:07:42] Yeah, it was hard. It was really hard. Yeah, everybody knew everybody in our town, you know? And so one person got word. It just kind of spread from that.

[00:07:53] And then even years after years after I was a teenager, I ran into people that were from drum and that were parents of kids my age.

[00:08:04] And they were even they even asked me about it like what was going on back then because it was such a big deal. And I was like, man, how you understand it is way different than how I experienced it.

[00:08:17] You know, and it was it was really hard for a long time because one never escaped me that this this perception of me of being a basically an abuser. It was awful. It was terrible.

[00:08:31] Like hearing that I'm imagining people coming to the house with pitchforks, you know, just if you're not especially you said you dropped out of school. So you drop out of school to try to avoid it there. But like you mentioned, it's a small town.

[00:08:45] So you I mean going out in public, you're going to come across these people either way. You're exactly right. And it was kind of like that like pitchforks, you know, and torches. That's how it felt to me. And I didn't leave the house. I was too scared.

[00:08:59] I was genuinely terrified to leave the house. And if I needed to go or if I wanted to go do something, I was thinking about carrying weapons with me just as self for self defense.

[00:09:10] You know, and it was that scary. It was that scary to me. Like I was scared to death. Did it ever get to the point where they were got physical? You know, they they were throwing rocks at you.

[00:09:23] They were chasing you down in a car and you know, anything like that. And one time it happened, but it was it was so brief. What happened was somebody saw me out there and they were pushing me and like yelling at me and calling me names.

[00:09:37] And I just all I said is do what you're going to do. I'm ready like whatever you're going to do go ahead and do it. Like I expected this it was time and he they just kept pushing me and kept pushing me and just calling me names.

[00:09:50] And eventually they just left, you know, they were they realized they weren't going to get a reaction out of me or whatever, whatever was going through their head. That was the only time but I didn't I didn't leave the house enough for anybody to see me.

[00:10:04] And then when I said I moved to the city. It was kind of because of that and then when I moved to what was called Dear Lodge.

[00:10:11] That was when I kind of felt a little bit normal because I got a job and then my life kind of started getting back on track. Then I got a state job and that was really a really good job.

[00:10:23] And then I started feeling like an adult and started feeling getting a little bit more self confidence, but that stuff never really left me, you know, kind of rested on my conscience.

[00:10:36] You know, almost all my life. I mean even to this day, you know, I'm pushing 40 years old or I am 40 years old and I still am affected by what happened to me as a teenager.

[00:10:47] Yeah, a lot of that. That baggage that we carry around with us and especially let's just say if it's not dealt with in a healthy manner, if we use things to cover it up, if we run from it.

[00:11:02] It just piles and piles and it takes its toll on us throughout the years and some things you're never going to shake, but you can figure out ways to maybe deal with it or.

[00:11:13] Yeah, to deal with it in a healthy manner. So I could imagine and like you mentioned because of this, it was it's going to do do a lot of things to you psychologically emotionally and there's ways that you probably were we're trying to cover the pain or to.

[00:11:31] Mask it with substance abuse and. Yeah, exactly. I think I'm glad you really brought that up because there's definitely a correlation to how I live my life.

[00:11:41] Once I moved based on what I experienced when I was a teenager so you know I was called a lot of names like pussy and and faggot they used a lot of those really emasculating words towards me and I acted in those ways like I was in a sense it coward.

[00:11:59] You know, as far as anybody looking from the outside in would say just go face it and I never did. I would devoid it. I was too scared.

[00:12:07] You know, and it was very emasculating now when I became an adult. I started drinking a lot. I drank a lot. It was constantly drunk. I gained a lot of weight. I put on, you know, probably about 120 pounds or more actually is probably like 160 pounds pushing to 300 pounds.

[00:12:27] Once I got out of high school, I was really got really, really fat and again that weight on myself conscious. But as I would drink, I would get really aggressive but I never harmed anybody but I would almost get to this point where I would try and intimidate

[00:12:45] and kind of reclaim some of my masculinity. And it was very toxic. It was really, really unhealthy. And people would just beat the shit out of me.

[00:12:55] You know, I got in. I never fought back and it was some weird psychological thing that I was going through where I would like basically kind of push these people to the limits, let them beat the shit out of me.

[00:13:08] And then I would just go home and just deal with it. It was terrible. It was an awful life. And I did that until, you know, I was 27. You know, when you start, I started drinking and then it kind of migrated into drugs.

[00:13:25] And when I was 26, 27, I really had a really, really bad experience with what I was told was ecstasy and it was very much not that. And for probably two days straight, I was so depressed.

[00:13:40] It did something to me. It affected me differently than anything I've ever experienced. And I was so, so depressed. And I remember telling somebody ago, if I have to feel this way any longer than three more days, I'm going to kill myself.

[00:13:56] I cannot handle this. And I said, I understand people who are genuinely depressed. If they feel this way, them killing themselves was the right thing to do because I cannot, I cannot handle this anymore.

[00:14:11] And about two days, you know, things started wearing off and I started kind of getting back to my senses. And then all of a sudden, in my mind, everything just clicked. It was like, man, you cannot keep living this way.

[00:14:27] Look at your life. You're in this, you're in your dad's basement. Here's this girl that you're sitting here and that is only here with you because you have a good connection. You know that there's nothing there.

[00:14:42] You are living a terrible life. You are a terrible person. Today you have to change. And that was the catalyst for me to start seeking help. And after, after that, you know, my life started coming back together once I swallowed some pride, acknowledged that I had a problem and that I let somebody else help me.

[00:15:04] I've learned that I couldn't do it myself. Had you tried any time previous to that to try to kick your addictions or your habits?

[00:15:15] Yeah, I wouldn't say that it was an honest effort though. I recognize that it was a problem in my life. And I was like, oh man, I should really cut back on drinking. Or I shouldn't drink so much when I go out or I should stick to beer. You know, there's all these like weird things that you do.

[00:15:29] Yeah. You know, and I recognize that I had a problem. I wanted it to not be a problem, but I didn't want to stop. So yeah, yes and no.

[00:15:40] Yeah, because I also, you know, come from many years of abuse. And so there's ways that you can justify it. And you know, I'm just like you said, just if you're drinking alcohol, which is anything and everything from wine to liquor to liquor to beer, but yeah, you can just justify, you know what, I'm just going to drink the I'm not going to drink the hard stuff, just beer.

[00:16:03] Yeah. But like you said, is that really an honor? Do you really want to let it go? Are you sick of it? Are you so how did that look like for you once you finally got to the point where you were just sick and tired of feeling the way you were feeling and living the way that you were living.

[00:16:21] Yeah. Yeah. So what would happen was I literally just kind of it felt like I just woke up, like I just as a human just appeared in this situation and I was fully aware of everything that was going on in this new person's life.

[00:16:36] Like I didn't even feel like myself and it was just like a light switch.

[00:16:39] And it dawned on me that I needed to go get help. And that's what I did. I pretty much left my situation just up and left and stayed with some friends in the town over and I went to a outpatient drug treatment facility and just said, I need help.

[00:16:58] And I'm like, yeah, come on in. And you know, they did their value or their assessment and and said, you need inpatient drug therapy. You need to go to inpatient therapy, which is rehab.

[00:17:10] And I was like, okay, whatever. And I basically submitted to that. Whatever they said, I was like, you guys are the experts. I'm going to listen and do what you tell me.

[00:17:19] I don't care what it is. They would have handed me a butter knife and said, cut off your leg. I would have just sawed through my leg just so I could stop. Yeah, it was that bad for me.

[00:17:30] When I went to rehab, I felt I felt like I was probably one of the few people that was taking it seriously.

[00:17:39] And so that was hard. But it gave me enough motivation to maintain my sobriety. And from rehab, I went into a drug home, I guess you could sort of like a halfway house, I guess you could call it that.

[00:17:56] It was not a good situation. And it was unhealthy and it was a very toxic place. But I still maintained my sobriety during that time because I was so determined to no longer live the life that I was.

[00:18:13] I went to AA meetings, NA and AA meetings, which were invaluable. I can't even explain how much they helped me during that time. And I did that for like three years.

[00:18:25] Within the first year of kind of going in that halfway house, you know, I had a good job. I got it. I got my own apartment after a year. I ended up getting married, which was too quick.

[00:18:37] I should have never gone that fast. But my life was slowly coming back together after a year and a half. You know, I got custody of my kids and everything just started working out.

[00:18:50] And there were some promises that AA gave and they reached far beyond anything that I could have expected. And you know, this was back when I was 27, so that was 13 years ago. I would have never dreamed that I'd be the person that I am today.

[00:19:07] Wow, that's a hell of a ride. And also that I mean you were putting just as much effort into it, it seemed like you know you were you were sold into the idea of getting well whatever it takes.

[00:19:20] So like you said, if they were going to give you a butter knife and said go ahead have at it chop your leg off. Then I'm going to saw that leg off if it's going to get me well.

[00:19:29] But you were completely sold and ready just sick of being sickly and disgusted and living the way that you were living. And you mentioned the drug rehab and that that was a big, you know, I've never been to rehab.

[00:19:41] The only thing I had to do once upon a time was and that was on account of my probation was the alcohol classes. But you did say that the drug rehab for you that, you know, that was a big help.

[00:19:53] Is there something I'm not too familiar how that process works? Was there something in particular that stands out that really was a great resource or a tool to help you towards this sobriety?

[00:20:01] Yeah, there was they talked a lot about like criminal thinking and kind of like warning signs of that you're going to relapse. Those were the two biggest things. You know when you start kind of being sneaky and doing these little things like oh yeah I can make a quick buck by doing this and it's

[00:20:19] might not be exactly the most honest way of doing it. That's when you guys start taking a step back and being like hey I'm working myself right into a relapse, you know, and that kind of that criminal thinking mentality kind of puts you right back into those old unhealthy behaviors.

[00:20:38] Once I was able to really kind of be conscious of my actions and what I was doing subconsciously was when I was able to kind of detach myself from those actions if that makes sense.

[00:20:55] Yeah, that makes complete sense. And how was it for you in the beginning dealing with your sobriety and you know because when you're under the influence that's one of the things some of us love being under the influence is because you escaped from your problems, your anger, your issues, your emotions, your past, your failures, everything.

[00:21:17] So how about once the sobriety was set in stone and you were right in that way, were you dealing with the flood of emotions that you know at one time you were suppressing or running away from or covering up with different devices or different vices should I say?

[00:21:35] How was that like dealing with them with a sober mind? Yeah, you know it seems like you have a pretty good grasp of exactly how all this goes because there's you cross addict right so. Yeah.

[00:21:47] You would be sitting there like oh yeah I'm not drinking alcohol and then you can do like what they call the California sobriety where you just smoke weed. Yeah.

[00:21:56] You know so and that doesn't typically work out for people. Each person's journey is different so I can't judge but it certainly wouldn't have worked for me.

[00:22:05] And what happened was and this is going to sound really weird and I think anybody that might be have gone through this might understand you know I wasn't drinking, I wasn't doing drugs, I was doing really well but then that slowly turned into gambling.

[00:22:18] And the gambling is was the hardest thing for me to I still I would argue that I still haven't gotten over it.

[00:22:27] I mean it was definitely much more mild than it was back then but I would go to the to the casino and I would gamble rent away and then I would leave there like how the fuck did this happen?

[00:22:39] And I was almost in autopilot where I was it wasn't in control of my body. Yeah.

[00:22:45] I would go over to the ATM and I'd be screaming in my mind don't do it what are you doing go home take your losses take your losses stop and I'd be screaming at myself in my mind.

[00:22:56] Yeah, like shaking putting my ATM card into the ATM and then I take out $200 and then put it in the machine.

[00:23:04] It was so bizarre. And then what I noticed, I started really kind of taken a step back and I'd be like, if my house was dirty, and I knew I had to go home after work and clean.

[00:23:17] I would avoid that by going to the casino and it was something so simple as that where I felt uncomfortable going home. So instead, I would just zone out on these machines, like I would just be gone. I would be in this machine. Very bizarre.

[00:23:33] Yeah, man. That's funny that you say that because along with the alcohol and the drugs, I was hooked on my thing was well when I was young, I'd like to shoot craps but then as I got older and then I was able to get into the casinos poker no limit Texas hold them.

[00:23:54] Man. I would yeah, it was unbelievable and it's crazy that they had, I'm sure they probably have it in every casino but maybe you have not you noticed it but you can go there and cast your check and they're going to give you you know money to play with and gamble off.

[00:24:13] I'm like check advances. We're lucky that we don't have that here in Montana or casinos are run very differently than your typical so there's some things that are preventative. For that.

[00:24:24] So I couldn't imagine if I could just bring in my work check and just cash it there's like here here's an extra hundred bucks you can play on the table. Yeah. Oh my God, I didn't even the death of me.

[00:24:34] Wow. So how long and when you were in the casinos that's hard to do because I don't think I was ever able not to drink when I was in there so you were in there sober but just gambling your your savings away your rent away.

[00:24:47] Yeah, you know it was weird. I was so determined. I just stopped liking alcohol which was weird. It just my mind switched one when my mind switched at twenty seven. It was seriously like a light switch.

[00:25:00] I just got smashed in the face with this enlightenment of alcohol being bad that is not to say that I've had drinks afterwards.

[00:25:09] I have there was certain situations social situations where I did break in had one or two drinks but then I was like I don't like this. This is not me.

[00:25:20] This is not who I am and I wouldn't do it again for five or six years and as a matter of fact you're from Germany when I went there about four or five years ago that was the first drink I had was in Germany. Wow.

[00:25:34] When I went back there in you know 10 or 11 years or something like that. And how'd that taste like for you after so long something that you didn't miss. You know it was a beer.

[00:25:43] You know it was weird because you know the people's addictions manifest themselves in many different ways and my addiction just never really centered around alcohol so much even though I would recognize myself as an alcoholic.

[00:25:59] I could have beer in my fridge for months without drinking it was more about when I was out and I started drinking was when it became a problem I just couldn't stop.

[00:26:10] So it was a really strange relationship I had with alcohol but when I was in in Germany and I had that drink I think it was Stella Stella is that what was the big Stella or Tua.

[00:26:22] Yeah is that the big one there there was like a is like a Budweiser of of Germany. I don't know is that if it's a German beer or a French. I could be wrong.

[00:26:33] No you might be right but I know of Stella but there's so many beers over here and it's funny because every region takes pride in their own beer every state every town every city. Yes.

[00:26:46] So maybe Hamburg they had their own special like tap beer that that was real big but I do know Stella it's in a green bottle. Yeah OK so I think it was still I'm not sure.

[00:26:56] Anyway it doesn't matter what it was but it was like I saw advertised everywhere and I'm like I'm just going to have one and it did it brought me a lot of joy.

[00:27:04] And I was sitting there I remember I was just drinking this beer and I was like this is really cool. I'm in Germany. This was my first international trip you know and I'm like this is cool. I'm in Germany drinking German beer.

[00:27:18] This is just so neat and then I just left it. I just left it and that was it for many many years. So it's really weird relationship.

[00:27:27] When we're talking about when she you hit your sobriety and you were living a sober life but then you picked up the gambling and you were on a wreck with that.

[00:27:38] How are you able to manage that in what was the thing that switched on or switched off for that matter to where you I don't know if it's safe to say you stopped gambling completely or you still like to dabble and dabble with it here and there.

[00:27:53] Yeah, this is the sad reality and if I'm I got to get honest with myself. I've never had control over my gambling. You know I might go along periods where I don't gamble.

[00:28:04] But once I start I don't stop until it starts really start ruining things and then I back off and how I managed it back then now I was raising two daughters as well and I was gambling on top of it and I'm trying to work a job gamble and and take care of these kids

[00:28:22] and just live a life and I couldn't I couldn't live and how I managed to do all that is take on more work. I started becoming a workaholic and I had three jobs at one time.

[00:28:34] It really really affected my relationship with my kids more so than probably what I want to admit and once actually once the pandemic hit.

[00:28:47] And I got laid off from all my jobs and we are getting the stimulus and all this stuff is when things started to really turn for me as far as my gambling addiction.

[00:28:58] And even though I was making more money not working than I was when I was working three jobs.

[00:29:05] Not being able to do anything and just reflect on my life was pivotal was probably the most impactful thing that happened to me beyond my rehab stint you know my sobriety. And I just looked at my life and I'm like my kids are suffering because of me.

[00:29:26] I don't get to see them. I'm not present like I should you know and I never doubted me as a father my ability to be a good father but I was certainly not doing them any good living the life that I was and I took that as an opportunity to start trying to change my life.

[00:29:48] And I did I really started researching ways of making money and making my money work for me and I learned about the stock market. I did really well. I still do all right. Not as good as the pandemic era but still doing all right.

[00:30:04] And I made a little nest egg for myself and it allowed me to take time off of work and focus on my relationship with my kids. And it was one of the best things that ever happened for our family. It was great.

[00:30:18] You know something about and I think that's probably even relatable to drug addiction but something about gambling also and I don't know if you dealt with this I'm pretty sure you probably did in your own way but when you're gambling.

[00:30:32] You're not just going through it right then and there because you know you're after you may be after your losses or the adrenaline pump whatever it is but then even after the fact it is wearing you out emotionally psychologically because you're thinking about the time you spend in there how much time you wasted

[00:30:53] how much money you lost and then you're just you it's a big shot on yourself worth on just anything your dignity your human dignity I don't know if these were some things that you were dealing with during the time you were gambling from you being in a casino and even when you're outside of the casino because

[00:31:13] your mind is still thinking about that last visit or the visit before that. Oh man you nailed it on the head.

[00:31:20] That is exactly what I would go through because I'd go in there and it was mostly afterwards when I was had that like clarity of what just happened like I'll be in the casino and like getting angry because I'm losing all this money but the reality doesn't really set in until afterwards

[00:31:36] and I'll sit there and be like $500 I could have done so much stuff with $500 and it took me one hour to lose all of that and there was times when I would go in my car and I would start driving home and I just start yelling at myself.

[00:31:52] Oh my god. Fucking idiot. I was like you're fucking stupid and it was just so weird. I just never had loss of control like that even when I was drinking.

[00:32:04] I recognize that I didn't really have control over alcohol you know to a certain extent you know but I could have it in my fridge for months without drinking it so I did have some level of control.

[00:32:15] I really never understood loss of control until it applied to gambling completely lose control over it 100%.

[00:32:26] Man when you said that yelling in the car why did I see flashbacks of myself doing the exact same thing and then now that you mentioned out of everything all the all the the pills that I popped the dope that I smoked the drink that I drank everything.

[00:32:46] I don't like you said I don't recall as many moments of me outbursting the way I did after losing and spending the time that I did in the casino even sometimes where I was driving I remember in the parking lot I'm driving through the parking lot.

[00:33:03] And then there was some people I'm driving after I blew I don't know how much money and I hear these people laughing outside they're going into the casino and I roll the windows down and I was like what the fuck are you so happy about.

[00:33:18] And I'm surprised it is just come at the car.

[00:33:22] You know that's a thing there's not a better high that I've ever had when it would when it came to winning but there's never been more sorrow that I felt then from losing and that up and down and it's so fast it could be one minute your way up here and then next you're going what the fuck.

[00:33:44] You're like no no stop as you're pushing that button you know as you're just watching money go down so did you.

[00:33:52] Did you ever try to do the where you leave your wallet your cars at the house and just put maybe a hundred dollars a cash in your pocket and say this is going to the casino and think that that's all you're gonna.

[00:34:05] I learned from Vegas they had these like little brochures where it's like do you have a gambling addiction here this is. You know if you have you mark you know four out of these 10 you might have a gambling addiction and I was like nine out of 10.

[00:34:19] And there were some things that it said you can do is like leave your stuff in your car because by the time you walk to your car you'll come to your senses and you'll go home.

[00:34:29] And I did that I was in Colorado is black Hawk Colorado they have this really big casino area up on a mountain and it's really neat it's really cool.

[00:34:39] And that's what I did as I left all my money in there took $300 into the casino and I lost it almost immediately and I was pissed and I just walked right out to my car grab my wallet and walked right back in. Didn't work at all.

[00:34:56] So but beyond that there was other things like I had a prepaid debit card that I would load money on occasionally and I would take it out of the ATM until that went to zero then I had to stop.

[00:35:10] But that didn't work because I just rationalized in my head. Oh I can just take from my other bank account. So I drive home and maybe wait a couple hours and then just grab my regular debit card and head down to the casino again.

[00:35:24] So it didn't matter there was nothing stopping me. Yeah yeah that's a that's a different kind of monster to deal with in itself. Is it safe to say that you have a lot better relationship with gambling. Gambling.

[00:35:38] Yeah because one in Thailand they don't have any casinos there and that helped me because I realized how much more productive I am when I'm not out there gambling.

[00:35:50] I got you know I wrote a book you know I published OK and it's the short it's just a small short stories horror. You know I published that and then I started creating music and I have a few albums that I created.

[00:36:03] I can't sing so they're just like lo-fi kind of relaxing music. But I was wildly productive when there when casinos weren't available to me I got so much done even started a podcast with a buddy there in Thailand.

[00:36:17] Man OK because I was refocusing my time and energy into other things and I had I didn't have I couldn't just say I'm bored I want to go to the casino instead I was like I'm bored. Let's do something creative and that worked for me.

[00:36:34] Now being back in Montana I don't really have the desire that I did now when I came back from Thailand I did stop in Vegas and I was lucky enough to come out ahead after a day and then then I came to Montana.

[00:36:50] But the addiction part of me started kind of slowly revealing itself like I didn't sleep for almost 36 hours. I think I had four hours of sleep in 36 hours because I was so like excited being in Las Vegas that I didn't need sleep. I felt good.

[00:37:09] I would I would go and take a quick nap and then I'd wake up and I felt energized. And what started happening is I was like I knew my body was like screaming you need sleep but I felt energized. I made myself go lay down.

[00:37:28] I was like you are going to stay in this freaking room until you fall asleep like a real sleep and I just laid there and I fell asleep and I woke up about four four hours later.

[00:37:40] And I was like all right got my sleep and then just went right down back down to the casino. Once you like you said you didn't have these vices that were taking up your time.

[00:37:52] You had there was a lot of creative energy inside of you that was going that was flowing in different directions with the music with the podcast with the you said writing the book even now I didn't know any of this beforehand so the music and the podcast.

[00:38:10] And the book are all these things available if anybody want if you want to send anybody in that direction to check it out and oh yeah yeah I'm glad you know I didn't even think about that like kind of promoting it but yeah I'll do a quick plug.

[00:38:21] If you want to check out the podcast me and a buddy there in Thailand we did did this podcast is all about fun we kind of talk about our experiences in in Thailand and we both kind of live different lifestyles and we kind of introduce each other to a different way that people live.

[00:38:40] And it's it hopefully will kind of in line some people it's all good heart good natured and fun. It goes by the pillow Pals podcast you can look it up on Spotify Amazon Samsung all these different places that allow podcasts.

[00:38:57] As far as the book goes there it's called there are ghosts in these pages five tales that follow you home. You can find it on Amazon. That was the easiest way to get it published. Basically the author's name is Julius Edwards.

[00:39:12] He was this really in that in a mad at person very quiet kind of a recluse. He had died and the Edwards family kind of inherited all his house and everything.

[00:39:24] Well once they went into his house they realized that he had written millions of books and philosophies and music and he drew pictures he was into art. But there was a there was a connection to like paranormal and the supernatural.

[00:39:40] And when the family started reading these books they started there was hauntings that came with those books. And so they try what they're trying to do is publish Julius Edwards's books in order to kind of dilute these hauntings and kind of pass it on to the reader.

[00:39:59] So that was their hope that they can they can wash their hands of these hauntings and pass it on to the reader. Okay. Hence the title. Yep. There are ghosts in these pages five stories that follow you home. And there's there's only really actually four stories.

[00:40:14] The fifth one is more of a an explanation I guess. And then as far as the music if anybody's into like lo-fi music and just relaxing Zen, you can check out Tranquility North.

[00:40:27] He's on or I'm I guess I'm I'm on all the different streaming platforms just about anyone that you can think of. Yeah, I'm always down to throw on some lo-fi when we're when we're around the house and just relaxing.

[00:40:41] And you can you can shoot me a link to all of it so then I can include it in the show notes and people can click on it and it'll send them right there. Oh great yeah thanks man I appreciate that. Thank you for the show.

[00:40:53] Yeah. No problem. You know just to play now we were talking about the gambling and I said that I was really stuck on even to this day you know I love playing poker because I feel like there's a science behind it and it's not all gambling like there.

[00:41:09] You do need some luck but it's a lot of skilled reading people and things like that and so the reason I brought this back up because playing devil's advocate and seeing that or hearing that you're also involved in the stock market and there's some people

[00:41:24] on the outside that say well you know what is it that kind of like gambling. Yes, bottom line it is. I get the same rush as I do in the stock market as I did when I was gambling.

[00:41:35] As far as how it affects me it's no different honestly I mean if I be true to myself and you know I had it all I won I mean if you want to call it that I won a ton of money one time and I was pretty much set for life.

[00:41:51] And then I started gambling again basically gambling on the market and I took these huge risks with this enormous reward thinking oh I'm going to be a billionaire and I was deluded.

[00:42:03] I was so delusional in lying to myself that this was actually going to happen and I believed it and I lost almost all of it.

[00:42:12] And it really had an impact on my life. Negative at the time in retrospect now I'm kind of glad I've washed my hands of it because I was kind of turning into somebody I didn't like.

[00:42:27] I was hoarding money, I was really stingy even though I had more money than I ever could have imagined I would have. I started becoming more like do I really want to spend money on that and I was more protective of my money it was really weird.

[00:42:41] And then you know and then when I said when I lost it all it kind of snapped me back to reality and I became a person that I like more than I ever have.

[00:42:53] And so I'm kind of grateful for that experience but at the same time I wouldn't have to work right now if I still had that money.

[00:43:00] But I remember sitting in front of the stock market I would wake up at 4.30 in the morning this is when I lived in Spokane Washington for a year. Did you do a lot of background studying before you got into it or you kind of learned as you went?

[00:43:15] Pandemic. The pandemic that's when I learned it. Ah, yes and I took seven months. I would take like $500 and I play around with it so I could understand how options work and how these other things would work.

[00:43:31] Other positions would work and I took seven months and like only like $500 and just kind of played around with it. And I started to kind of understand it and I started making these bigger and bigger bets and I started winning a lot.

[00:43:48] And then I remember I'd wake up at 4.30 in the morning without an alarm. I just wake up naturally and just start get on my computer and start looking at the pre-market. What's moving? What's moving? Go time.

[00:44:00] And then you know I take my daughter to school then I'd get on the computer until about three o'clock go pick her up or 2.30 go pick her up from school and then stay on there until about four. That was my day every single day Monday through Friday.

[00:44:14] And I wouldn't remember like when I'd have really good days, I would just be sitting in front of my computer shaking like just with this adrenaline rush of like wow what an awesome day today was and all I would think about is the stock market, the stock market.

[00:44:32] I would get on like earnings calls and I would just sit there and play them maybe two hours long and I would just sit there and listen to these earning calls. It was an obsession no different than gambling.

[00:44:42] Yeah, and it's crazy because you know there was a time where you had to go into a stock exchange and make all the moves but because everything's digital.

[00:44:50] I mean it's at the hip because you have it on your phone and wherever you're at even if you're not in front of your computer you can be out maybe taking your kids to have you know a little bit of fun at the park.

[00:45:00] But you're not even enjoy that because you're on the phone checking out the stocks. It's not that you're not enjoying it and you're not present for your kids and they see that in you. Yeah, exactly. They know that you're not there. You're gone. And that's happened. That happened.

[00:45:14] You're checked out. Mm-hmm. That happened. I was lucky for me that when by the time my daughter got off school the stock market had closed so I could just kind of focus my time on her.

[00:45:27] But if I had little kids that weren't in school I'd have been completely detached until that market closed. Were you doing day trading too? That's where I made all the money was just day trading. I would just sit there and buy and sell stock.

[00:45:40] That's all I would do all day. You have to be that that's in real time. You have to be moving with you know just as the second is ticking. Yep, you have to babysit it the entire time.

[00:45:51] It's not like oh I'm gonna invest in the spy and just let it sit for five years. It wasn't like that. There was times where I was probably doing 40 or 50 trades a day easy. Man, and you and that whole time you're on edge.

[00:46:06] I'm sure you're taking your emotional roller coaster is hitting highs hitting lows just at the you know the drop of a dime. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, it was like that. You don't need a red bull or anything.

[00:46:20] Your heart's jumping out of the it's damn near jumping up out of your. There were days like that.

[00:46:24] Yeah, there were definitely days like that but there was also and also you know just like with gambling he's trying to set limits like oh if I make $500 today I'm going to quit.

[00:46:34] And you might do that one or two times and then you're like wow I did my first trade I made $500. Well what am I going to do with the rest of my day trade. You go right back into it.

[00:46:45] You know so and you're right those highs and lows were no different for me than if I was at the casino hitting a jackpot and then losing it all that I'd hit that same high and I'd be down in that same sorrow.

[00:47:00] And then at one time you were you were drinking and then you were abusing substances in that stance and then you came to an awakening it was almost like that old biblical story when when Paul he was he was ruthless and vicious and they said he was out there causing may have

[00:47:15] been he was going to go pillage the next town or whatever just out of nowhere.

[00:47:19] He was knocked off the horse something in the cloud spoke to him and he automatically just that just like that changed his life around and get he turned his life over to spreading the good news and you seem like you just had an awakening I don't want to drink alcohol.

[00:47:36] I don't like the taste of it.

[00:47:38] It doesn't do anything for me anymore you went to the meetings and and you you got yourself clear and then you started dealing with the gambling and and you were able to sort your way out of that there's a lot of a lot of twists and turns in your journey.

[00:47:53] Yeah, you know just kind of reflecting back on your story of Paul. It was very much felt that same way because I'm I don't prescribe too much of a divine entity.

[00:48:04] I've never have but certainly felt like there was a higher power at play that was kind of giving me some kind of knowledge about myself.

[00:48:12] Like I was completely detached from any emotion that I had in my life and I just saw my life for what it actually was. And I realized I had to change and it it was like a light switch.

[00:48:24] I'm not even kidding. You know those stories of people that like get hit in the head and they start speaking in an accent. Yeah, that's kind of how it felt.

[00:48:32] It felt like I was so had so much trauma from from coming off of the off of what was supposed to be ecstasy that that my brain was like dude we need to change something needs to change. Divine intervention in some way shape or form.

[00:48:49] Yeah, so it was that complete low that you hit and once you came off of that you came to the realization the revelation and epiphany the light switch went on something of the sort to where that was when you started taking steps towards sobriety at a running pace.

[00:49:08] Yeah, it was and it really was like that I think you know I did outpatient for like a couple weeks I was inpatient and then I ended up you know I was inpatient for about a month.

[00:49:19] I ended up in a completely different place and then I stayed in that place for another 10 years and thrived. Wow, are you talking about with the AA and the NA you were you stayed in that for 10 years.

[00:49:33] Yeah, so I ended up in a completely different town if you if anybody wants to look I moved to a beautiful part of our state.

[00:49:40] I lived right outside of Glacier Park it's a beautiful area I think I don't think there's anywhere in the world that's quite comparable to what I've experienced in Glacier Park but I moved up there I stayed up there for 1010 years and I was probably in AA for seven of those years

[00:50:00] until I moved away from Kalispell.

[00:50:03] Did you feel like when you ended up staying away for it for long a long period of time a long stretch did you feel like that you needed it and you weren't going to you weren't going to be able to hold on to your sobriety without it or did you

[00:50:19] feel like there was a time in a place that you would eventually be able to I wouldn't say stand on your own because you're using a lot of the tools and resources that you you gain from that but that you would be able to do things apart from you

[00:50:33] know attending the meetings the way that you were attending them. I was pretty much committed to going to meetings for the rest of my life. I saw the value in it. I saw the camaraderie. I saw it working for me and it worked very well.

[00:50:50] I mean I couldn't have done it without those meetings as time went on, I guess and I don't want to anybody to hear this and think that AA or NA is inherently bad in any way.

[00:51:02] I think it is great for everybody if you let the program work out supposed to work and and you do what is suggested in the meetings, but I kind of started feeling like they weren't working for me anymore.

[00:51:17] And I kind of started seeing the problems with it that I didn't like people do get sentenced to go to like NA and AA so sometimes some of there's people in there that may not have the best intentions. For the wrong reasons.

[00:51:33] Yes exactly and I kind of see I seen I was seeing like kind of predatory behavior that I didn't like and I've never been a godly person and they have always the biggest thing is like kind of turning it over to a higher power and I had a hard time with that personally and being submissive even though in the early years

[00:52:00] I was really submissive to the program but I started kind of realizing that some of these people might not know exactly what they're talking about.

[00:52:10] And it wasn't until I started I went back to school for for social work where I started to kind of learn about human beings you know how to take some sociology classes psychology classes and I started realizing that

[00:52:25] these people are acting as therapists to vulnerable people and it can easily go awry if you do not pick the right person to kind of have as a sponsor or the right people in the program it can go awry really easily.

[00:52:44] I stopped going because of that but I have to give credit where credit is due I would not be who I am today without those meetings.

[00:52:53] I found the right people and I took the good things out of it that it offered I took full advantage of the program and made it work for me and one of the sayings is like keep coming back it works if you work it and that is exactly true but you have to you have to really make sure you're careful can get yourself involved with the wrong people.

[00:53:19] Yeah, I've heard of mixed emotions when it comes to a and I think you used it you used it to your benefit and use this the way that it should be because you know this is this is kind of just me on the outside looking in I think I think when it comes to most things if you're talking about maybe

[00:53:39] an instructor teacher if you're going to classes to learn something the whole point is for you to get there at first maybe you're a baby you don't understand anything you don't know what it's about how it's going to work but you follow along you apply the tools and everything that they're instructing you to apply into your life and

[00:53:58] you eventually get to the point where now you can go ahead and you can step out and do these things on your own without I don't want to say the training wheels anymore but you can you can really leave the nest and you don't need the teacher that the way that you once did so I think even in something like that

[00:54:19] some people they might stick around for life because they think that they need that but there's some in six months in eight months for you however long it was you felt like okay I'm not getting anything from it anymore but you did take everything that was useful you applied it to your life and it worked to your favor.

[00:54:38] Yeah you're exactly right I think that you know everybody's journey is different and I don't I'm not going to judge anybody for whatever path they take so somebody says oh I can't drink anymore I don't want to drink I'll never drink again and then you know after a month or so they start going out and drinking again.

[00:55:00] I don't know maybe that is okay maybe that'll turn out to be just fine for them.

[00:55:05] I don't get to judge that you know so yeah I think you're right I think you really nailed it on the head when you said maybe that three years or however long I went there seven seven or eight years actually was just what I needed in order to kind of have enough tools to build that foundation exactly have enough to get me to wear hey I'm good now thank you so much for this hand up thank you.

[00:55:30] Yeah and I think also that gives that that also does something for you and puts little extra gas in your tank because now that you see like you know I'm out here and I'm doing this apart from attending the meetings the way that I was attending I'm standing on my own on my own so to speak so I mean that's got to do a little something for your self worth and your self esteem and in your confidence level.

[00:55:54] Yeah and it also allowed me to kind of branch out in because my life was consumed by a meeting it's like I would go almost every I could imagine are we talking Monday through Sunday.

[00:56:04] They had them yeah it was every day I didn't go like that frequently but they were available to me that frequently and you know there would be times where I would go seven days a week and there might have been times where I went once a week you know it's it there's no really you just show up when you feel like you need it.

[00:56:21] And I did there were times where I was come all it was was a just come that's all I was on my mind that's all I cared about and it was because out of sheer desperation to stay sober.

[00:56:36] And they were always there for me and everybody that was there was there for me because I could go in there and I could say hey I'm Justin I'm an alcoholic.

[00:56:44] I have a really shitty fucking day and I need some people to help me get through this and there would be an overwhelming response hey come see me let's go get some coffee let's go have lunch I'll buy you dinner whatever it'd be an overwhelming support there like overwhelming support.

[00:57:02] And I am very grateful for that I don't want to get get anybody the wrong impression about a or na it is a very very effective program bottom line it just got to the point for me personally that I felt like I grew grew out of it.

[00:57:21] Right on you're talking about your personal journey and that's really what the show is about every time I connect and talk with somebody it's about their personal journey and it's not to say one size fits all would work for you is going to work for the next man or the next woman but some things can click and resonate with them

[00:57:39] and maybe you pick a little bit from this that sounds right or feels right and then a little bit for a little bit from them and a little bit from them and you you apply it and you hybrid it and make your own machine and working mechanism within yourself and you work out your own issues

[00:57:57] and you sort out your own journey along the way so that that's it's not any kind of cookie cutter.

[00:58:04] Yeah I agree but you know the sad thing is that we're kind of always told at a young age like go to college do this that you have to fit in this little box and it wasn't until I got older that I realized hey you know what I don't fit in this box I'm going to do what I want and what makes me happy and what makes me feel good and I'm not going to

[00:58:22] as far as I can without harming anybody else you know and it wasn't until I just realized I have my own path you might not like what I do but I like what I'm doing and then that's when I started to be getting happy that's when I found true happiness in my life is when I was authentic to myself.

[00:58:45] That's awesome that you said that because you took us on you took us on the course of some of your troubles your challenges your mistakes your pains and the ways that you you dealt with it in the unhealthy ways that you dealt with it but now you're in a better place place it sounds and you were telling me about some things that that you have going on nowadays you might just sharing a little bit about that you don't have to get into too many specifics but even the plans of you spending

[00:59:15] some of your time overseas and yeah so I feel very fortunate and I'm very grateful for my position that I'm in you know right now I'm only going to be working like six six months out of the year.

[00:59:26] Go back and live in Thailand where I just love the country it's a beautiful country wonderful people there and that's kind of where I'd like if I could I just permanently stay it's just such a great environment a great welcoming environment for anybody all walks a life doesn't matter what you're in.

[00:59:45] Into who you're into how you want to live your life.

[00:59:49] Just kind of keeps to themselves and allows each person to live how they want to live and it's just such a comforting thing and you know my kids have grown my daughter graduates actually today is her graduation so I'll be going to that.

[01:00:04] In a couple hours and they're all grown so I have this freedom that I never had and I've never been happier and I couldn't have done it if I hadn't got sober and I didn't swallow the pride that I had back then and sought help I had I couldn't do it on my own.

[01:00:25] There's no way I'd be I probably be dead if I would have stayed on this path but yeah I've traveled all over the world I've been you know southeast Asia you know I've been to Germany we talked about Hamburg and where you're at and you know Costa Rica Ireland Iceland just all over globe trotting and it's all because

[01:00:45] because I invested on myself and in myself and my own personal well being I had to become number one before I could be any be of help to anybody and once I put myself first and my health.

[01:01:04] My relationships with everybody else flourished and I felt more close to the people that I love more than I ever did.

[01:01:11] Man that's beautiful globe trotting and now that it's like you got your second wind and you're not even you know they say the average American or you can just apply this to whatever country live in is going to have to get used to working to the rightful age of 65 or 75 to retire and finally start and join you know you're putting

[01:01:35] X amount of years into a company but then when you're able to finally say I'm done now I'm just living off a retirement how old are you and are you still able body to move around and enjoy yourself but it's a beautiful thing to be where you're at right now and to have the freedom

[01:01:52] to be able to you know work X amount of months and then go ahead and enjoy your life the way you'd like to enjoy your life off the clock.

[01:02:02] Exactly I don't have anybody telling me I have to be up at nine and after work until five and you get a 30 minute lunch break. You know I don't have to deal with that day in and day out for years and years and years and then finally I get to dictate my life and I'd like to add that it's not just because I took my my well being and my mental health came first.

[01:02:23] I also stopped caring about what other people thought of me to some degree you know if you take it to extremes that can be a problem but I stopped. I started living my life as authentically as I could based on who I am and once I started doing that I started becoming more and more happy

[01:02:44] and you know people value things differently like if you looked at my brother for instance I think he values like hey look at my car and look at all these toys I have in this nice house that I've got and look at how I live and for me and that's that's how he wants to live and and he finds happiness in that

[01:03:05] but for me I was like look at all these experiences that I've got and look at all these people that I've met look at all this cool stuff I get to do and that's where I found value and once I was able to kind of break from that

[01:03:18] that kind of that cage so to speak of like you have to go to college and you have to get the good job and work until you can retire and then you retire then you can do those things once I broke that mold because that wasn't for me it is for other people that's when I found happiness.

[01:03:35] Yes you're investing in experiences and memories and that is something I think is a lot more valuable than any kind of toy any kind of shining object. I feel the same way I'm with you on that feel the same way about those things the experiences and the memories that come with it

[01:03:55] and just looking to to enjoy more of those while you're able to and I was happy to hear here a lot of what you had going on how are you able to wiggle out of that and how that you're in a much better place now especially with your daughter graduating and you have that to get to that's going to be nice to see.

[01:04:17] Yeah very proud of her she graduated I think with a 4.0 I couldn't be more proud yeah I cannot be more proud of her and she's going to go to college and I think that the only reason that she turned out the way she was is because I've been able to afford more time with her and I valued time with my family over money and because of that.

[01:04:39] I think she's where she's at now.

[01:04:41] That counts for a lot that quality time is especially at those critical stages of their life and that age man so I'm going to include the links to everything that you have going on and yeah man I really I really appreciated your story and what you had to share with this if you like to.

[01:05:00] Before we wrap this thing up because I know you also have some things going on like your daughter's graduation but if you'd like to wrap it up with some final words or anything you'd like to leave off with feel free my friend. Yeah yeah for anybody that's listening.

[01:05:14] I'm just going to say thank you for everything.

[01:05:17] Whatever you're going through I promise you things can be better and just don't give up but always to try and take baby steps in order to to help and get better and I promise you things will get better as long as you keep trying and your hearts in the right place.

[01:05:29] I have a saying do the right things and the right things will come and I can almost guarantee that eventually as long as you keep doing the right things your life will get back together. Don't give up. I've been there. I've wanted to give up.

[01:05:43] I tried giving up once twice in my life. I'm really glad that never happened and I'm where I'm finally at a place in my life that I can look at who I am and say I'm happy with where I'm at and who I've become so stick in there.

[01:06:00] Stick it out. Power through it. Thousand percent. My pleasure. I really enjoyed it. Thank you my friend. Appreciate it. Yeah thanks for having me. Thank you again Justin for being a part of this human experience and for opening up your heart and being transparent with us.

[01:06:19] Sharing those struggles sharing those challenges that you face with addiction with the drinking with the gambling the abuse that you had to deal with but not only that but also how you were able to sort out the things in your life that you felt needed to be sorted out

[01:06:36] not wanting to run away from your problems anymore to just man up and face them head on. It's great to hear that you're in a better place now.

[01:06:44] It's great to hear that you have a healthy relationship with your daughters and all that excess energy went into creativity went into making music went into writing a book went into creating a podcast with the buddy of yours doing all these things that you probably never would have had the time to do had you been bound and tied up to find a way to get through it.

[01:07:06] Fighting your own demons and dealing with addiction. I'm happy that you found your happiness. And like you said now living on your own terms and for you it's not about the shiny things. It's not about the big wheels. It's not about the big toys.

[01:07:21] It's about creating experiences traveling immersing yourself in different cultures. That's a beautiful thing and I feel the same way about a lot of that. So just keep doing you unapologetically. You are a giant amongst us. Hope you guys enjoyed the conversation.

[01:07:41] If at all you feel inclined to check out what Justin is doing, check out his music, check out his podcast or even check out his book. All of that information will be included in the show notes so have at it.

[01:07:54] And as always a big thank you to everybody listening and for those of you who each and every time there's a new conversation, you guys check with us and you lend an ear and spend some of your day with us. Appreciate you all.

[01:08:08] Let me know where you're listening from. Let me know how you listen to the show. Drop me a line. Shoot me an email. I'd be happy to hear from you. It's always great to get feedback. Whatever it is on your mind and you like to share.

[01:08:21] I'm all ears. And I'm thankful and grateful for everybody who's been a part of the show up until now.

[01:08:28] I look forward to bringing you guys more stories and you guys be sure to check the show notes and follow the link so you can get information on what's going on with the show and his side thoughts and he after thoughts and he in between the stories and the extra audio clips because I want to start sprinkling some more of that on the side and just continue to build a good foundation and connect with people who have a story to tell because we all have a story to tell.

[01:08:53] We all have a unique story and experience and you guys are welcome to give feedback. You guys are welcome to share your thoughts.

[01:09:00] You guys are welcome to shoot me a line and let me know how you feel about the show and also free of charge, you know, you can share this with a friend and tell a friend to tell a friend and tell that friend to come back again or on whichever streaming platform you're using if you feel it within your heart to do so.

[01:09:19] If you feel that this has brought value to you.

[01:09:22] If you feel that these stories that you've heard have resonated with you, give it a rating or you can always reach out to and send a line send some warm words to the people who have shared their stories any stories in particular that spoke to you or struck a chord with you.

[01:09:39] You guys be safe out there. You guys be saying tell your loved ones you love them and we're going to catch up and do this again real soon.

[01:09:47] So before the sun sets on my side, if you would like to be a part of this show and share your story or even a story of someone in your life that has impacted you in a positive way. You can always reach out to me via email.

[01:10:04] I'd be happy to connect until next time and very soon peace. I'm looking for a sign to know I'm on the right road and seen no signs since Jericho.