Real stories, told by real people.
We're back!! I hope this finds you all in good spirits. Today, we're joined by Emmanuel, and he's got a story to tell. Raised by an abusive mother, and in a cult. He was kept away from his father, and all alone. When the authorities, police officers, school board members, and other adults did nothing in response to his pleas for help and reports of abuse. Emmanuel, out of desperation, fled, running away at 15 years old.
Through all the pain, suffering, trauma and the guilt of blaming himself for the abuse. There's also healing and forgiveness. And Emmanuel, who credits his faith in God for being a reason as to why, was able to forgive his mother for the abuse he suffered as a child. That was a big part of his healing. Emmanuel is definitely a GIANT AMONGST US, With new life, purpose, and meaning.
If you enjoyed the Show, you can support it with a rating, and leaving a review. And word a mouth is still the best advertisement, so if you know someone who you think might find value in any of these stories, share it with them.
'Til
very soon,
PEACE!!
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Connect with Emmanuel :
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SubscribeStar : subscribestar.com/emmanuel-goldstein
Truth Social : truthsocial.com/@Emmanuel_Goldstein
BitChute : bitchute.com/channel/emmanuelgoldstein
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Youtube : https://youtube.com/@EmmanuelGoldsteinINGSOC?si=l5KKnhddXbQWb399
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00:00:00
This is Giant Amongst Us.
00:00:17
What's up?
00:00:23
How's everybody doing?
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I hope you all are in good spirits.
00:00:27
Welcome back to the show. Thank you for tuning in.
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Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening.
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Depending on where you are at this point in time.
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So we're back from our break and we've got another one.
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Real stories told by real people.
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And today, Emmanuel joins us and he's got a story to tell.
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Imagine growing up in a cult and being kept away from your biological father.
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Bouncing from place to place with the mother who was abusive and as a child
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when you try to speak out and look for some kind of support or help.
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The authorities, school board members, all they give you is a cold shoulder.
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They look at you in disbelief. Your words fall on deaf ears.
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How alone would a child feel to be ignored like that?
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How that could damage and affect and just kill the spirit of a kid?
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This was Emmanuel's reality at a young age and at 15 years old he left
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feeling that there was nothing else he can do but just get up and go.
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At 15 years old, left to fend for himself.
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I'd like to give you all a warning too
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that this episode will have some sensitive topics being discussed.
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Sexual abuse is one of them. Life is a journey. It's a hell of a ride.
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In Emmanuel's story, it has pain, it has suffering, it has trauma, there's abuse.
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But to anybody that has listened to this podcast and this show,
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you know that it doesn't end there.
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And Emmanuel's story is no different because he talks about growth, he talks about love,
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he talks about forgiveness, he talks about healing.
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And that's the essence of this podcast.
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So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, this is Emmanuel and his story.
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Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning in.
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We've got another show. We have another story.
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And today we're joined by Emmanuel.
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I probably said it wrong again.
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We were trying to get it right beforehand but I gave it a shot.
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Thank you so much for taking time out of your day.
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You could have been doing anything.
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You could have been anywhere.
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It pretty much was a spur of the moment.
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Thank you so much for being with us today.
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So welcome.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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I always use any opportunity to tell my story.
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I think it's important and I love your angle of having a positive impact on people
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and people being able to take something away from other people's experiences.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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So for starters, can you share with us a little bit about where you come from
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and how it was for you growing up?
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Oh dear.
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Yeah, you know, if you ask me that kind of question, that already kind of...
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That opens up a can of words.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That already gets into the whole issue because I didn't have a typical childhood like at all.
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And we're talking about out of the womb directly?
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In my case, pretty much.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's all kind of related and it starts with my birth pretty much.
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Yeah.
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But that whole thing is also related to everything.
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Right.
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But I'll get into that later.
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So I don't know where I should start.
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Well, how about like, because you do have a unique upbringing,
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if we didn't, we talked a little bit offline.
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So I kind of have a small backstory, but I'm sure there is so much more.
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But for starters, I guess, did you grow up in a large family or was it a small family?
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My actual family was very, very small.
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Because like I said, sometimes my mother was living in communes to get with me.
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So in that sense, that was my family.
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But my actual family was only my mother.
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That's why I said it starts with my birth because I was born...
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I'm German, but I wasn't born in Germany.
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And I lived all over the place.
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And that was mainly because my mother didn't want my father to be able to see me.
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So that's why I was born in a different country.
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And that's why we always moved different places.
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And that's why it's difficult to talk about my childhood.
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Out of curiosity, how old was your mother when she had you?
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28. And I was...
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In a way, I was her second child.
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But I was her only child.
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But in a way, I was her second child in the sense that before she had me, she had an abortion.
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And she didn't want to have that abortion.
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It was her father and her boyfriend that pressured her into having me.
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That pressured her into having an abortion.
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And that traumatized her.
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She felt guilty, even though it wasn't her fault.
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There was nothing to feel guilty about, as far as I'm concerned.
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If she was pressured into doing that, it's not her fault.
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But she felt guilty anyway.
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And so she was looking for a way to make up for that.
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And she figured, well, if she just has another child and doesn't abort it this time,
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she can make up for having abort the first one.
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And so she just kind of picked up my father in some bar.
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It was just like the first dude she met.
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And she threw herself at him just to have the child.
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And after she was pregnant, he served his purpose.
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She didn't like man because of her own natural experiences with man
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and having been forced to have the abortion and stuff like that.
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So yeah, that's how all that came about.
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And then, like you were telling me a little bit beforehand, you were born into what you would call a coat, right?
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I wasn't exactly born into it.
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That's actually a good question, because it might actually all have started with my birth,
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but I don't know for certain.
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I just noticed something.
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When I looked into some of the teachings again, I mean, I know the teachings of that religious group.
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Obviously, I still know them from my childhood, but now in preparation, I looked at it again a little bit.
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And I noticed that one of the gods or one of the divine beings, divine beings is a bad word,
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one of the divine beings they believe in is actually called Emmanuel.
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So it's actually, you know, it's my name.
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I figured, and I never noticed that before.
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I never saw that before, but did my mother give me that name because, you know,
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because that religious group believes in that being as a divine being, you know,
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they have a divine being called Emmanuel.
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I never saw that before.
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I never realized that before, but I think my mother actually intentionally gave me that name because of that.
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I never knew for certain if she was already in contact with that religious group when I was born,
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but I think she must have been, yes.
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And you were moving around, you said as far as you can remember,
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you were moving mainly to stay away from your father?
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Right, right.
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So if you're moving around the way you were, I could only imagine that you weren't able to go to a
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regular school.
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Yeah, no.
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No.
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I mean, well, so first off, well, when I was very young, you know, she was moving around a lot.
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And then there were, you know, there was a period of time, a couple of years where she settled
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in that area of the religious group and where we were living on the property of that religious group.
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And that lasted the longest time. That was the longest time we stayed in one place because
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we stayed in that place for, I don't know, maybe like seven or eight years, which was very long.
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It was the longest time in my childhood that we stayed in one place.
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And other than that, it was all just, you know, moving from one place to another,
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usually within a couple of months.
00:09:34
Can you, for that seven-year period, I mean, you don't have to get into everything, but can you
00:09:41
kind of give us an idea of how it was being involved in that community?
00:09:48
Yeah. Well, in a way, it was, I mean, it's a very, I mean, we can use names.
00:09:57
It's called, well, in English, it would be called universal life.
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In German, it's called universelles Leben. It's a German Christian,
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or at least they call themselves Christian, new religious movement, you know, as you're supposed
00:10:13
to say nowadays instead of cult.
00:10:17
Is that a new word?
00:10:18
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah, but I think that's the PC term, right?
00:10:24
It's a Christian new religious movement. And actually, it has some gnostic elements.
00:10:29
Some gnostic elements to it as well. But I didn't notice that as a child.
00:10:34
As a child, I had no idea what gnosticism even was.
00:10:38
It's just recently that I learned, you know, some aspects of gnosticism.
00:10:41
And I realized, hey, that group like 20 years ago, that was like total gnostic.
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And of course, as a child, I didn't notice that.
00:10:50
So it's, yeah, it's a Christian neo-gnostic sect that was at the time,
00:10:58
at the time was very popular here in that area. So I live in Bavaria.
00:11:04
And one city particular, where they were very popular back then.
00:11:09
But outside of that, they're probably not as well known.
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But still, you know, I think it's still relevant because the way they operate and the way all of that happens
00:11:22
is maybe pretty typical. And a lot of, you know, a lot of similar groups
00:11:27
probably operate very similarly. So I imagine that even if people don't know that specific group,
00:11:37
they might know a group like that.
00:11:40
When it was that time, the seven years, how old were you?
00:11:44
How old were you during that?
00:11:46
Yeah, so at the time when she was really starting to get serious with that group.
00:11:51
I mean, she always read, she had always read their books. And that's probably why she gave me that name.
00:11:59
Because at that time, she was already reading their books.
00:12:03
And then she was in a place where they had a small community.
00:12:07
You want me to mention the German city names?
00:12:10
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
00:12:11
Okay, so we were living in Regensburg.
00:12:13
Okay.
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Another city in Bavaria where they had a small community, a small community.
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And she was very involved in that small community there.
00:12:26
But she felt she wanted to go to the big community, which is in Regensburg.
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So then we moved to Regensburg so that she could live because the properties,
00:12:39
they have a lot of properties, both now and back then.
00:12:43
They own a lot of buildings around here, a lot of farms around here, a lot of compounds, basically.
00:12:52
Yeah, so a lot of real estate.
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They have a lot of real estate.
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And so she moved here to live on one of their farms and basically dedicate her whole life to them.
00:13:06
And work with them, work for them.
00:13:09
It was really, it was like a bit like a communist commune in a sense.
00:13:14
Everyone was working together and there wasn't really a concept of money.
00:13:19
Everyone was kind of sharing everything.
00:13:22
I don't think they do that anymore, a little disclaimer, in case someone from that group
00:13:27
listens to that and maybe gets offended and says, oh, that's not how it is.
00:13:32
I don't think they do that anymore now, that whole commune aspect.
00:13:37
I don't think they have that anymore.
00:13:38
But back then, they were emphasizing that a lot.
00:13:41
When was this?
00:13:42
What year, around what year was this?
00:13:44
I think it was in, it all really started in 1988, at least for my mother.
00:13:51
So I think in 1988, she was already, before 1988, she was already involved with a small
00:14:00
community in Ringsburg.
00:14:01
Around 1988, she moved to Ringsburg and that's when she dragged me into it.
00:14:10
But your question was how old that was?
00:14:12
So I was, how old would I have been?
00:14:14
Yeah, it started, so it started when I was around five years old.
00:14:17
That's when she really dragged me into it as well.
00:14:21
Wow, five years old.
00:14:23
So now your mother at this time dedicated herself to these group of people and she
00:14:29
pretty much was devoting her whole lifestyle, was a part of building or serving this sector.
00:14:38
Now, she was already an adult, but what was it like for a child?
00:14:43
Like, were you also put on the farm?
00:14:47
Were you sent through classes?
00:14:49
Were they like indoctrinating you through books or lectures and things like that?
00:14:54
So later on, that was when I was already out, right?
00:14:58
But then they started to really have schools and to really focus on children, but back then
00:15:06
they didn't.
00:15:07
So back then they didn't have schools of their own and they didn't really target children yet.
00:15:13
So that the whole, back then, the whole doctrine and all the teachings were focused on adults.
00:15:21
I didn't really care for that at all because it didn't speak to me.
00:15:28
At that time they were really focused on targeting adults that were disappointed with the Catholic Church.
00:15:39
Because in this area, I mean, it's not the case anymore.
00:15:41
Now they're all atheists.
00:15:43
Now almost everyone in Germany is basically an atheist.
00:15:46
Even if they say they're not atheists, trust me, they're atheists.
00:15:49
Anyway, most Germans are atheists now.
00:15:55
But back then, at least in that area, everyone was Catholic and back then everyone genuinely
00:16:03
believed in God.
00:16:04
At least at that time they still kind of did.
00:16:07
So they were targeting these kinds of people who truly believed in God, but who were disappointed
00:16:15
with the Catholic Church.
00:16:16
Because obviously, if you're a Christian, if you read the Bible, you'll discover some discrepancies
00:16:22
between how Jesus acted and how the Catholic Church and the Probe acts.
00:16:27
Right?
00:16:27
So they were targeting these kinds of people and it was very effective, but it meant nothing to me as a child.
00:16:33
How did they occupy the time of kids?
00:16:35
Like what were they doing?
00:16:36
Did you guys have sports that they put you in or their activities that they...
00:16:41
They didn't have any official programs for children at that time.
00:16:46
They didn't have them yet.
00:16:48
Like I said, later on they started focusing heavily on children, but at that time they didn't do that yet.
00:16:54
So they didn't have any programs for children yet.
00:16:56
The extent of their programs for children was like, in a way, it's a little similar,
00:17:02
a little similar to Islam or maybe to Mormons.
00:17:05
In a way that they have their own prophet, in this case a woman, they say they're Christian,
00:17:13
but they say they believe in the Bible, but in reality, they kind of really don't.
00:17:19
What they truly believe in is these revelations by the...
00:17:24
What's the female form of prophet?
00:17:26
Prophetess.
00:17:27
Right, by the prophetess.
00:17:29
Okay, so that's what you truly believe in.
00:17:31
So every once in a while, back then the prophetess would still come out with new revelations, so to say.
00:17:38
And that was like a big event and everyone was going there,
00:17:41
even though you never saw her in person, it was always on tape.
00:17:46
So those events were big and my mother of course always went there to hear the newest revelation.
00:17:55
And of course she dragged me along and of course I didn't know what to do during that time,
00:18:01
so they started arranging, they would have a big conference room where the prophetess on tape
00:18:09
would give her newest revelation and then in the next room, they would organize a little room
00:18:14
for the children to play.
00:18:15
So that was the extent of their programs for children back then.
00:18:21
And the rest of the time, since we were living on their compound anyway,
00:18:27
of course I was living with them and everyone, I kind of liked it because they were kind of friendly.
00:18:34
At least to me as a child.
00:18:35
So in a way it was kind of fun and I was helping with the farming and helping with some of the chores.
00:18:45
So that was kind of fun, like with my mother because I was always only around with my mother,
00:18:51
around my mother, so that was kind of nice to also have some other people to be around with.
00:18:58
So for me that aspect was actually kind of nice.
00:19:02
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was trying to understand.
00:19:06
Like even if they didn't have any kind of programs for the kids, but what were you doing at that time?
00:19:11
Your mother and people there, were they even allowed to leave?
00:19:14
Like say if they wanted to, if they wanted to go visit family outside the compound,
00:19:18
how was that looked at or how was that dealt with?
00:19:21
Obviously, I mean that wasn't specified in their teachings, right?
00:19:26
But obviously if you have a group like that, obviously, because it's just human psychology,
00:19:33
right? It's just human psychology. So gradually, automatically, because these people bond together,
00:19:41
right? They're going there not necessarily because they truly believe all the spiritual teachings,
00:19:48
but also a big aspect is because of the community. They're looking for a community and they're looking
00:19:55
for other people, you know, to give them a purpose in life and to have a bond with and stuff like
00:20:01
that. So automatically, if you're in such an environment and if it's very intense, then
00:20:07
increasingly, automatically these people will, with the passage of time, start to more and more
00:20:14
demonize the outside world in a way. And that's also a big aspect for why I didn't go to school
00:20:24
most of the time. So most of the time I wasn't in kindergarten and I didn't go to school because
00:20:30
my mother wouldn't let me. Even though in Germany, you know, there's no such thing as being homeschooled
00:20:36
in Germany. In Germany, by law, you have to go to school. But since they didn't have schools of
00:20:43
their own and since public schools were kind of demonized, I just simply didn't go to school.
00:20:51
And I didn't, my mother didn't let me to go to school anyway. You know, even, you know, independently
00:20:56
from that group, she didn't really want me to go to school in any case. So if we weren't at that
00:21:04
compound, then most of the time I would just have my mother. At that compound, at least I had contact
00:21:10
with these other people there, right? Yeah. How was the relationship with your mother during that time?
00:21:18
The relationship of my mother was always, was always very difficult. I was never easy because,
00:21:27
oh, there's so many issues. I don't know if you have time to get into all of it. But let's just say
00:21:34
it was always difficult. And maybe you can kind of understand why that might be difficult in such a
00:21:42
situation. And for as long as you can remember, has it been that way? It was, I mean, I'm not saying
00:21:50
that's because of the group, but it was always difficult for me. I never had a normal childhood,
00:21:57
no. And so eventually I ran away. I left the group and I left my mother. Like we were talking about,
00:22:04
you know, when, before we started, that ties in into some of the more difficult and serious aspects.
00:22:12
And that's, that I was abused, even sex sexually abused. So that's why I ran away. And it wasn't
00:22:20
because, you know, there wasn't the people in the religious group that abused me. Well, it was,
00:22:27
it was since my, obviously, since my mother was part of that religious group. But anyway, no, it
00:22:32
wasn't, it wasn't the people in the religious group that abused me. It was my mother that actually
00:22:37
sexually abused me. So that was obviously the most difficult for me. And that's why it was never
00:22:44
easy for me in my childhood, especially when I was still around my mother, you know, no matter if
00:22:50
she was in that religious group or not, obviously, it was always difficult for me to be around my
00:22:56
mother. That's my, you know, I eventually ran away from my mother. Because, you know, normally,
00:23:02
you'd have like, you know, you'd have like child protective services or something helping you.
00:23:08
And that's also why my mother moved around so much. It's, it's to, to avoid the de-authorities,
00:23:14
right? And she was pretty good at avoiding the authorities and staying off grid, you know,
00:23:20
other than in such communes. But these communes, at least back then, were off grid themselves. So
00:23:26
she always kind of stayed off grid. So there weren't as many outsiders around to help me.
00:23:34
And even if I did manage to talk to someone, or I even tried to talk with the police. But back then,
00:23:43
it was just, you know, people didn't believe, couldn't believe that. They, you know, they believed me.
00:23:49
I remember talking to the police and they believed me up to the point where it became clear that
00:23:56
the allegations of sexual abuse were not against my mother, but, no, the other way around,
00:24:03
were not against my father, but against my mother. And they couldn't imagine that, you know,
00:24:09
they couldn't imagine that my mother would do that or that a woman would do that. So they
00:24:14
simply didn't believe me. So in the end, I didn't see any other way than to run away.
00:24:22
That's, that's just a damn shame that, you know, a lot of people's voices are left unheard.
00:24:30
How about like, during, during the abuse, while you were in these, these communities,
00:24:36
was there ever anybody around that seen or had a feeling about something going on?
00:24:45
That's, that's, that's difficult. I, I, I don't, well, on the one hand, I don't want to say anything
00:24:51
wrong. You know, I don't, I don't want to accuse that group of, of, of something it didn't do
00:24:57
on the one hand. And on the other hand, I honestly, I really don't know. I was,
00:25:03
I only, only reason I asked that is because it seems like there's, there's a, there's times that
00:25:10
people are in the presence of something like that. But for whatever reason, they turn away from it.
00:25:19
They don't want to get involved in it. Yeah, yeah. But that, that was the attitude of everyone
00:25:25
back then, you know, so it wasn't, it wasn't just the people in that religious group. It was, it was
00:25:32
everyone that, that saw that, you know, I mean, most people that, that had contact with me or my
00:25:39
mother saw that there was something off going on. But most of them had, had just kind of had the
00:25:47
attitude of looking the other way. And like I said, back then, people just couldn't imagine that a,
00:25:53
a woman would do something like that. You know, if it was the father, it was something different.
00:25:59
But with a woman, they couldn't imagine that was kind of the attitude people had back then. I don't
00:26:05
know. So you were, you were getting that not just from the local authorities, from everybody.
00:26:11
I was getting that from everyone. That's my point. I was getting that from everyone.
00:26:14
Right. From not just the local authorities, but from anybody and everybody that was around and
00:26:19
didn't say anything. And it's like a lot of times, you know, you, you hear of these stories and it's
00:26:25
like, oh, if I would have known, and there's, there were so many red flags, but, but things go
00:26:32
left undone. And especially at a young age when usually a child, you're seeking protection, you're
00:26:39
seeking support from the adult. And in that sense, it seemed like you're surrounded by people, but
00:26:45
it's like, I can't trust any of them. And there's really nowhere to go for the support that I'm
00:26:51
looking for. Because it seems like nobody's listening and nobody cares. How are you at that
00:26:56
time? I'm sure you were inside. You were, you were all mixed up. Yeah. Yeah. I think the real reason,
00:27:05
and of course, I don't know that for sure. It's just, it's just my impression, you know, if you,
00:27:10
if you're looking for an answer of why people behave like that. See, the, and it doesn't matter
00:27:15
if it's, if it's that religious group, it was, it was like that with other groups as well, you know,
00:27:20
no matter where we were. And even if I've, you know, there was at least a short period of time
00:27:26
where my mother actually, you know, eventually she realized, okay, I need some schooling, right?
00:27:33
So eventually she did send me to school. So it's not like I've never went to school. But even when
00:27:38
I went to school, it was a private school. It wasn't, like I said, there were no, there were no
00:27:45
schools of that religious group. By now they have their own schools. But back then they didn't. So,
00:27:54
and since public schools were demonized, you know, she at least sent me to another private school,
00:28:00
a private school that again emphasizes spirituality a lot. And they also gotten,
00:28:07
you know, some criticism. And the teachers knew what was going on, you know, they saw that.
00:28:14
But they didn't help me. And I spoke with one of my teachers lately, you know, like after 20 years.
00:28:23
And he explained what was going on. And, you know, he just, you know, blatantly explained to me that,
00:28:31
that he was actually told that if they see abuse, even sexual abuse, if they see that some of the
00:28:40
children who go to that school are sexually abused by their parents or whoever, they were
00:28:47
specifically told not to report that to the authorities. And the reason was that that was a
00:28:53
private school. And I'm not going to say what school it was. That's not important, you know,
00:28:59
but it was a private school that faced a lot of criticism in the past, you know, precisely,
00:29:05
because, you know, people were already concerned for the well-being of the children there. So,
00:29:10
they were like, well, if, you know, if that comes out, then that's just going to, you know,
00:29:15
make us look even worse. And that was kind of the reaction of everyone, you know, no matter if it
00:29:21
was the school, or if it was the religious community, or if it was the village, wherever
00:29:29
I was, people didn't want something like that to come out anyway, because they felt it would make
00:29:36
their village, or their religion, or their school, or their whatever look bad.
00:29:44
That is to me. I mean, I'm just going to be honest to me, that's just sickening. How? Because
00:29:51
you're worried, you're so worried about your organization that you're tied up to, you're so
00:29:56
worried of the name being tainted that you're not as a human being when you see something that is
00:30:04
morally wrong like that. To me, I feel obligated to step in and do something, whatever it is. I mean,
00:30:10
I don't care if the authority is telling me not to do it. Some things I'm going to go ahead and
00:30:14
cross the line no matter what, especially when it's having to do with that. Because to me,
00:30:19
when I hear that kind of stuff, it's sickening that people are willing to override any kind of
00:30:26
safety, security, love, something to do with a child. You're going to override all of that because
00:30:33
of fear that your organization or your club, the name is going to be tainted, or you're going to
00:30:40
lose your job. If that's the case, it's like, I don't want any kind of relation to that organization.
00:30:47
Anyways, if they're related or they're tied up in that kind of sickness, and that's just my two
00:30:54
cents on that. Yeah, but in reality, that's how a lot of people act, especially in communities
00:31:06
where the community is emphasized a lot. That's kind of the downside of that.
00:31:12
That they might see it as solidarity, solidarity towards the other members to not make them look
00:31:21
bad. But that's kind of the downside of it. Yeah. What was the final breaking point to where you
00:31:30
decided to, because that was a young age, you left at fifth, that is very young. Did you step out on
00:31:36
your own? You just left and got completely lost and separated yourself from them? Yeah, both. I was
00:31:45
separating myself. Well, actually, I started by, well, it was sort of at the same time, but
00:31:53
well, the one kind of goes with the other. I was separating myself both from my mother and from
00:31:59
the religious group, though I first started with separating myself from the religious group,
00:32:05
and then from my mother. At that time, I was about 12 or 13, and then my mother moved away from
00:32:20
the compound. When I went away from my mother at 15, we were already no longer living at that
00:32:29
compound. She was still kind of into it. She was into that ideology, and I don't know if that
00:32:36
ideology and that belief is good or bad. I'm not going to pass judgment, but I just felt it necessary
00:32:42
to get away from all of that at that time, and especially, of course, get away from my mother.
00:32:48
The way I did that, well, originally, my plan was to just get help from the authorities,
00:32:55
get help maybe from my grandparents. They were one of the few people who believed me,
00:33:04
but again, basically because of solidarity to my mother, they didn't help me. Then I tried getting
00:33:14
help from my teachers at school because at that time, I was going to school, but I just
00:33:21
told you how that went. Then as a last resort, I simply tried calling the police,
00:33:30
and that didn't work either, because I explained a little. They didn't believe me because I had
00:33:37
their full attention until the moment they realized my accusation wasn't against my father but against
00:33:44
my mother. At that time, they couldn't really believe that, so they didn't take me seriously.
00:33:49
I was left with no option. At least, I felt I had no option, and I didn't get any help from
00:33:55
anybody. At least, that's how I felt at that time. I didn't see any other option than to run away
00:34:02
by my own. The way I did that, now that I think about it, was actually pretty clever because,
00:34:09
of course, eventually, there were some troubles, and eventually, I did end up on the street,
00:34:15
but at least initially, of course, the plan wasn't to end up on the street. At least initially,
00:34:21
that worked. I didn't end up on the street, at least initially. The way I did that was simply
00:34:29
to confront my mother and simply tell her that either you pay for my own apartment,
00:34:38
or I'm going to tell the authorities everything I know. The next day, I had my own apartment,
00:34:45
and she paid for it, at least the first few months, and then I was sort of on my own.
00:34:51
And how old were you? 15.
00:34:53
15 when that happened. Were you still in Germany, or did you...?
00:34:57
Yeah. We moved away to the north of Germany at that time.
00:35:05
Was your father ever... Like I know you said that with times when your mother was kind to
00:35:13
avoid him, but did you ever know of times where he was trying to reach out to you? Did you hear
00:35:19
from him? Oh, yeah. He always tried to have contact with me, and of course, I wanted to have
00:35:28
contact with him. But in a way, that whole thing kind of helped my mother to keep my father away,
00:35:40
because everyone could see that... Well, frankly, everyone could see that I was being abused.
00:35:47
So everyone just kind of assumed it was my father that did that, even though I've never seen him.
00:35:52
So that kind of helped my mother to convince the authorities to not allow him to see me.
00:36:01
Understand. Yeah. How long did the abuse go on for?
00:36:07
How much do you want to get into that? Because, like I said, if you want to put that on YouTube,
00:36:13
then I might better worry to know the specifics. No, this isn't going on YouTube, but just...
00:36:17
I mean, it's really... Like I told you before, I'm not trying to press anything. It's what you're...
00:36:23
No, it's fine. I can talk about it now. It's fine. I can talk about it now. In the beginning,
00:36:31
if we would have had that talk like 10 years ago, I would just freeze, and I wouldn't be able to talk
00:36:37
about it. But obviously, I talked to psychologists by now, and I'm now stable enough to talk about it.
00:36:49
And the reason was also that a lot of... Initially, I just... How do you say this in English?
00:36:56
I've repressed everything, especially since I was... Since I didn't... Since starting the 15,
00:37:06
I didn't really have anyone to take care of me. And my mother only paid the rent initially, and then
00:37:12
I had to figure out how to pay the rent myself, which I couldn't always do. So I had to figure out
00:37:21
ways to make money and to get a job, even at a young age. I needed a job, obviously. But it was
00:37:26
very difficult for me to get a job because I was... At a job interview, I would always be very nervous,
00:37:33
and I would always mess it up, and I would be socially awkward, and I wouldn't know why.
00:37:39
And that went on for a long time. It was a real struggle for me, and I was like,
00:37:45
why is this happening? Why can't I get a job? Why am I so socially awkward? And then I figured,
00:37:53
well, maybe it's because of all the sexual abuse that I've been repressing for 20 years.
00:37:59
Maybe that might have something to do with that. So that's then when I started to
00:38:07
talk to psychologists and get help, so now I can talk about it. Initially, like I said,
00:38:14
everything has to do with the initial abortion that my mother had. That just messed her up,
00:38:22
because like I said, she was forced to, and she didn't want to. And that just messed her up completely.
00:38:27
And she was probably also abused by her boyfriend. I don't know that for sure, but
00:38:37
from what she told me, it sounds like it. So anyway, she was really traumatized,
00:38:42
and she started to hate men, and started to blame men for everything, basically.
00:38:51
And then of course, that presented a sort of a problem for her, because she didn't want to have
00:38:59
an abortion again. The whole point was to not have an abortion again. What was she going to do
00:39:05
if the child she has turns out to be male? She's going to have a problem with that,
00:39:09
and she did have a problem with that. But then again, she can't get an abortion again,
00:39:13
because the whole point was to not have an abortion. So that was a bit of a problem for her,
00:39:18
because she really, really, really wanted and needed a girl, because she was afraid of men,
00:39:25
and she hated men for what they have done to her, even though it's not like men did that.
00:39:31
It's specific men that did that, but she blamed it on all men. So she figured, like I said,
00:39:40
that at least back then, that religious group was kind of like a commune. And even though it
00:39:49
builds itself as a Christian religious group, there are actually a lot of leftist ideology
00:39:57
that's in there. I mean, they also have some extreme right wing stuff, but anyway, the point
00:40:03
is my mother was also very much a communist, and she was actually, you know, back when East
00:40:12
Germany was still around. And so she actually had a lot of connections to that as well. So she was,
00:40:19
she wasn't just, she wasn't just a normal communist party member, but how do you say that? Like a
00:40:26
communist official, basically. So she was very much indoctrinated with that kind of ideology as well.
00:40:35
And one aspect that they teach you in like Marxism 101 is that there is nothing that is
00:40:45
inborn, basically. We are a product, that's like a leftist teaching, right? We are a product of
00:40:52
our environment, like completely. There's nothing inborn. So she believed that. So she figured,
00:40:57
well, if she just, you know, raises me as a girl, then because gender in her mind is a societal
00:41:06
construct, as long as she just simply raises me as a girl, I will magically become a girl. I mean,
00:41:12
obviously, I'm not going to have the parts, but other than that, I'm going to behave just like
00:41:18
a girl and it's going to be fine. So she actually raised me as a girl, or at least she tried to
00:41:26
raise me as a girl because I didn't like that at all. But that's how everything basically started,
00:41:32
because I refused to be a girl. I didn't want that. So she started punishing me for that. And,
00:41:39
you know, she had to beat me. She had to use, that's when she started using physical violence,
00:41:44
because that was the only way to get me to act like a girl, because I didn't want that. And
00:41:49
unless she used physical violence, there was no way she's, she was gonna get me to behave like that.
00:41:54
So at that point, she had to use physical violence, at least in her mind. So, and then also did the
00:42:01
sexual abuse started as well, because the moment I refused to become a girl, that was what made it
00:42:11
possible for her to do that stuff to me, because, because then I wasn't a child anymore. I wasn't
00:42:21
an innocent child. I was, I was a man. I was part of the group that did all these terrible things
00:42:27
to her, at least in her mind, you know, because she, she wasn't really able to differentiate
00:42:31
between individuals in a group, you know, because, because that's, that's what she believed. She, she,
00:42:35
she was judging everyone based on their, on their group, not on the individual. So the moment I,
00:42:43
I refused to be a girl, she, she started to also sexually abuse me.
00:42:49
Man, it seems like you have nowadays a very good understanding of the psychological warfare,
00:42:57
or you know, what was going on in her mind, in her way of thinking, especially with her ideology
00:43:04
to make, I don't want to say make sense, but for her to be able to do what she was doing and not
00:43:09
feel anything about it, or not, you know, have a, have a conscious for it. Because like, like you
00:43:14
said, in, in her reality, you were now the enemy or somebody that she despises. So why should I
00:43:21
feel sorry or bad for doing this? Never mind that, that it's her own child. When you were talking
00:43:26
about everything that, having to do with like what she was trying to do from a young age, and I
00:43:33
was trying to put you in girl clothes and girl get up and maybe, maybe I'll change, change them
00:43:39
this way. But I was wondering when you were part of the, the communities, because a lot of times
00:43:45
like-minded people, they tend to, they tend to like being around each other and you always,
00:43:51
I don't want to call, well, I guess you could say like you're in an echo chamber. Sometimes you
00:43:55
just want to be around people that think like you, that speak like you and anything that's
00:43:59
challenging that it could be uncomfortable. So you'd rather stick to your own and some of those
00:44:04
communities, they have the same ideologies. So I was wondering when you were younger and you were
00:44:10
going through these, these terrible things with your mother, if you had, had, had a met any kids
00:44:19
or anybody that, that may have hinted to them, having things done to them or having their,
00:44:27
their mother or their father acting a certain way towards them, you know, abuse or, or any kind of
00:44:33
sufferings to that extent. You mean, you mean at, at that time when we were living in, in that
00:44:40
religious community? Yes. No. And I'm not, I want to make that clear, you know, because I don't want
00:44:47
to offend these people too much. And I'm not accusing them of, of sexually abusing me. I'm,
00:44:55
you know, just accusing my mother. So I'm not, I'm not saying that, you know, I don't, at the end
00:45:01
of the day, yes, I was trying to make sense of it, but at the end of the day, I don't know for,
00:45:06
for certain why. So I'm certainly not saying that, that it was because of the religious group. I
00:45:13
don't know. I honestly don't know. And I don't know if other things like that happened with other
00:45:19
people in that religious group. I honestly don't know because now, now I, you know, I, I've thought
00:45:28
about what happened a lot and, you know, try to understand and make sense of it all. It was very,
00:45:35
very important to me to, to be able to overcome all that. That was, that was very important to,
00:45:42
to understand why that was very important to me. Because if you experience something like that,
00:45:47
initially, and the perpetrator will, will actually want that, the perpetrator will want you to blame
00:45:54
yourself even though obviously that's complete rubbish. And, you know, obviously it's not the
00:46:01
fault of the child when something like that is done to them. But a child doesn't understand that.
00:46:08
And at that time, I didn't understand that. So for a long time, I was blaming myself, right?
00:46:13
So it was very important for me to, to, to actually understand what was going on. And, and, and that,
00:46:21
that's why I, that's why I tried to make sense of it all, right? But back then, I didn't, I didn't
00:46:29
yet have that ability. So I, I wouldn't have been even, even if there might have been other children
00:46:35
with, you know, with similar circumstances, I wouldn't, at that time, I wouldn't have been able
00:46:42
to recognize it. How are you able to make ends meet at such a young age? Because I don't know how
00:46:50
it is in Germany, but isn't there a, were you working jobs under the table, just odd jobs so
00:46:56
you can survive during that time? Because you're 15 years old and left to fend for yourself.
00:47:03
It was difficult because, you know, because normally, if you, if you get help from the
00:47:10
authorities, you know, you basically get provided everything. But since that wasn't the case for
00:47:17
me, yeah, I was basically working odd jobs, so to say, I didn't, I didn't have much money. And,
00:47:22
but I also was able to save a lot of money because, you know, because back then, it was, it was easier
00:47:30
to, well, for example, nowadays, you live in Germany yourself, right? And so you know how it is,
00:47:37
right? So, of course, you know, Germany is great. Germany has universal healthcare,
00:47:43
and free healthcare, free healthcare that, free healthcare that obviously you have to pay for.
00:47:50
It's not really free healthcare, but, you know, you know, everyone is first, for example, you know,
00:47:58
to pay healthcare, even if they're not getting any benefits from that. But back then, it was,
00:48:05
for example, still possible to not do that. So I simply wasn't paying healthcare. And I wasn't,
00:48:11
you know, I was still young. So I wasn't really getting sick. So, so I just, I just, you know,
00:48:17
that was one way I saved money is just simply not pay for healthcare and not having healthcare,
00:48:23
either, which probably was a bad idea. But it, you know, we looked out fine. So, yeah. So, so I was,
00:48:30
just, I was, I was trying to save as much money as possible and, you know, do odd jobs and do
00:48:36
whatever. I was always trying to get jobs and I took whatever jobs I was able to get. Most of the
00:48:42
jobs I didn't get because I was, you know, I was still so socially awkward because that whole
00:48:48
experience left me very socially awkward. Yeah. That's what I was going to ask you also, because of
00:48:54
all of the failed attempts for you to get help. I mean, how were you feeling towards people at
00:49:02
that point in your life? Was it, did you feel like you couldn't trust anybody anyways? Like you said,
00:49:06
you were socially awkward, but I mean, did you feel like you would rather keep to yourself because
00:49:12
of a lack of trust and confidence in people being there for you when you felt like you would need
00:49:19
them or you needed them in your life? I felt that there was something wrong with me. You know, and
00:49:26
that's, that's, that's very typical. That's, that's with, you know, basically everyone that was sexually
00:49:33
abused as a child. They're going to blame themselves, at least initially, right? Or at least as long as
00:49:40
they don't get help, which is why it's important to get, you know, professional help and to talk to
00:49:45
up psychologists. And as long as they don't do that, then they usually aren't able to break out of that.
00:49:51
And they're stuck with blaming themselves. And of course, that's painful, you know, because the
00:49:57
whole memory is painful. And then on top of that, you blame yourself for all the terrible things
00:50:03
that have happened. And that, that would, that's what leads people to repress all, to simply repress
00:50:10
all these memories, you know, and repressing the memories doesn't mean that you, you can't remember
00:50:14
anymore. It just means that you don't want to remember because it's painful. And on top of it,
00:50:19
being painful, you blame yourself for all of that, right? So it's really important to, to talk to
00:50:29
up psychologists. And then, and it's only when I started to do that, that that was, that I was able
00:50:36
to break out of all of that. Can you remember that, that time with that, that point when you
00:50:42
took that step to try to seek help and figure out how you can better your condition and work
00:50:49
towards some type of healing and recovery for, for everything that happened in the past?
00:50:56
Well, I think the turning point is that I've watched, I like for some weird reason. Oh,
00:51:01
actually, I know why. I don't know if you may have time to get into that. I really like horror movies.
00:51:07
And the reason why is because when I was four years old, my mother watched Alien with me.
00:51:17
That, I think that that was the first time it was shown on TV, you know, the original Alien movie.
00:51:24
And she was, she was scared to watch it alone. And so she thought it was a good idea to,
00:51:33
to have her little child watch it with her. And it, of course, it completely traumatized me.
00:51:43
And it was, it was horrible. I had nightmares for weeks. But after the nightmares went away,
00:51:50
I noticed something. And I noticed something in that movie, other than, you know, being a scary
00:51:55
movie, it's also, you know, because actually Alien is about, is about sexual abuse. And Ripley,
00:52:06
in a way, is a, is a survivor. Of course, back then I didn't, I didn't understand that consciously.
00:52:15
But I understood it subconsciously. It gave me hope in a way because she, because she was able
00:52:22
to overcome all that. You know, she, she suffered all this horrible abuse, because everything in
00:52:29
Alien is symbolic about, you know, for, for sexual abuse. And I didn't know that as a child, but I
00:52:35
noticed it subconsciously. And I noticed that at the end of the day, she was able to survive all that,
00:52:42
and to overcome all that. And that gave me tremendous hope. So that's, that's why I like horror movies.
00:52:48
And I was watching a, a similar psychological horror movie. And there was a scene in that where,
00:52:57
where the protagonist of that movie was, was talking about his childhood and, and how he was
00:53:06
sexually abused. And, and how he was blaming himself for that. And then the psychologist
00:53:12
says to him that, you know, that's complete rubbish, you know, that obviously it's not
00:53:20
the fault of a small child when it gets sexually abused. And I, I watched that. And, and obviously,
00:53:29
you know, at that point, I understood, oh, oh, oh, you know, and that's, that's when I got help.
00:53:35
Wow. How you, you spoke of aliens. Now I feel like I would have to rewatch it with that in mind,
00:53:44
because in your reference, you're saying that that's a metaphor for sexual abuse, that whole movie in the
00:53:51
that's crazy. And the subconscious level, who knows the creator, the director, maybe in a
00:53:55
subconscious level had that on mind. But of course, sometimes you want to do things in a more subtle
00:54:01
way. And you use symbols or you use characters, but you're really referring to something else.
00:54:06
In his creating it subconsciously, his thoughts and all that, they're put out into the ether.
00:54:11
And then, boom, you as a child, you connected with that, even though you didn't know it at the time,
00:54:18
like you said, in a conscious level, but subconsciously, there was something there that
00:54:21
was making complete sense to you and hitting home in a, in a different way. Wow. Right. Right.
00:54:29
Everyone noticed it subconsciously. And that's what makes it scary, you know.
00:54:36
Now, you know, one thing that really strikes me is all, and we could only, we only have time to
00:54:43
talk about so much. But I mean, I, I can't even begin to imagine the, the stuff you had to go
00:54:50
through. And but, but the thing that strikes me out of all of, all of this is how you still seem
00:54:56
upbeat. You know, you seem chipper, you seem friendly. You said you were socially awkward
00:55:02
at one time, but I mean, you seem like you, you, you're, you're loose and you're easy going. Like,
00:55:07
it's so good to see that. The thing is, when you've been traumatized, it never goes away completely.
00:55:17
You know, if you, if you work on yourself, you can make it go away to, to a certain extent and,
00:55:24
and to, to the extent that, that you're able to live a normal life and, and, and be happy.
00:55:32
You can, you can do that. And you can, you can live a normal happy life if, if you, if you work on
00:55:40
yourself. But yeah, of course it, it always, it's, it's always kind of there. It's, it's like,
00:55:48
I don't know how to describe that. Maybe, maybe a kind of subconscious fear, you know,
00:55:54
because, because you've been traumatized, you're always kind of afraid of that happening again.
00:56:00
And that fear never goes away completely. But you can get to the point where you control the fear
00:56:07
instead of the fear controlling you. Oh, that's powerful. Years have passed. So,
00:56:14
like throughout this time, what has been some, some things that you've worked out or like tools
00:56:20
that you use to help with the healing? The only thing that's, that's left to talk about and that I
00:56:26
intentionally didn't mention and, and that I usually don't mention because it's, it's very
00:56:35
personal and especially, you know, if you're talking about such religious groups. And it's
00:56:43
also, you know, especially nowadays with all these horrible things happening in even, even in a
00:56:49
Catholic church, you know, you have like priests abusing altar boys, you know, and that was also,
00:56:56
you know, I mean, that was also a huge thing that a religious group I grew up with was,
00:57:04
was criticizing about the Catholic church, right? So it's come to a point where, where religion has,
00:57:11
has almost gotten a bad name and it's something bad. And in a way, even though religion isn't
00:57:17
the same as, as faith and isn't the same as, as God, right? People have difficulty distinguishing
00:57:25
between that. So, so when they, when they see like a Catholic priest abusing an altar boy, they,
00:57:32
in a way, they kind of blame God for that, even though obviously it's not God's fault, right?
00:57:37
And that's, that's kind of one of the things I, that was very important for me to learn was
00:57:42
not to blame someone else, right? Because you always tend to do that, right? When something
00:57:47
terrible like that happens, right? You say, oh, it's my own fault for, for having been sexually
00:57:53
abused at like five years old. How is that your own fault? That's not your own fault. And if they
00:57:59
don't say, oh, it's my own fault, they say, oh, it's God's fault. How is it God's fault exactly?
00:58:05
I mean, shouldn't it just be the fault of the perpetrator? It's, it's the fault of the perpetrator,
00:58:09
perpetrator, isn't it? I mean, right? So that's, that's very important. And so, it was very important
00:58:16
for me to realize that as well, you know, because, because of all these bad experiences. And initially,
00:58:21
I, I was also like feeling like, oh, in a way, I was also blaming God. And, and I didn't have any
00:58:28
faith. But then I realized that just because, you know, some religions mess up, that doesn't mean
00:58:34
it's, it's God's fault. And so for me, it was also important to have my own faith and my own faith in
00:58:43
God. And not necessarily, you know, having any religious community, I always try to, to separate
00:58:51
that. And in German, you say, well, you say the same as in English, actually, you say religious
00:58:55
community. So, or faith, faith community, no, in German, in German, you say faith community,
00:59:02
Glaubensgemeinschaft. So a lot of, a lot of people focus on, on the community, but not on the faith,
00:59:10
you know, but you can have faith without the community. What do you need a community of,
00:59:14
of humans for? You can, you can just have, you know, your own faith in God, you don't,
00:59:19
you don't need the community aspect. So it was, that was something that for me personally was,
00:59:25
was important was to regain my faith in God. Yeah. Yeah, everybody has their own journey. And you're
00:59:33
right. You're right that we can, the same way we can generalize one person wronging us. And then
00:59:41
now it's everybody, you know, like how you said it for one thing, your mother, because of what man,
00:59:48
what one man did. And then now it was all men are the enemy. And the same thing, like if it has to
00:59:54
do with it, it could be a religious group or something in it. Now, anything that religious
00:59:58
group represents, including God, I want no part of it. But that could definitely be the wrong way
01:00:06
to go about it. I'm curious, what's become of your mother and your father? Is there no contact
01:00:12
at all with them these days? I have contact with my father now, now I, not, not that my mother
01:00:21
doesn't interfere with it anymore. I'm able to have contact with my father. And I, you know,
01:00:27
I have contact with my father. And I, well, you know, I like him. Nothing, nothing, nothing wrong
01:00:34
with him. You know, obviously, you know, it was, it was very difficult for both of us. Right. And
01:00:41
there were some aspects that neither of us knew how to deal with back then. But, but other than that,
01:00:49
he's a normal nice guy. And I like him kind of. And it's a shame that, that, you know, that he never
01:01:00
had the opportunity to really be my father. I mean, to actually be there for me. But it's not
01:01:06
his fault. It's not his fault. And my mother, well, you know, after, after I ran away, so initially,
01:01:14
that, you know, the first couple of years after I ran away, I blocked contact with her completely.
01:01:22
And, and that was important to me at that time. I just, I just needed to get away from everything.
01:01:30
You know, it was too traumatic. I just needed some distance. And so the first couple of years,
01:01:35
I didn't have any contact with her. And then, then after that, you know, after I had some
01:01:41
breathing space, I tried approaching her again to just have a normal relationship. Despite all,
01:01:49
despite all that happened, you know, just, just have a normal relationship now. But that was never
01:01:56
possible. She always felt, how do you say this in English? She always started to behave in the
01:02:04
same patterns. And she was unable to break out of that. How should I explain this? It's like, you
01:02:11
know, because of this whole disnacing, you know, the word grooming has always has almost, you know,
01:02:18
people don't take it serious. It's like, they make fun of it, you know, but it's actually a very
01:02:24
serious thing. And it's, it's, it's a horrible thing, you know, that exists, that there is grooming,
01:02:31
and there are predators out there that use these kinds of tactics to manipulate their victims.
01:02:39
It's a very serious issue. But people nowadays don't take it serious anymore. But it's, it's a
01:02:44
very serious thing. And it exists. And that's, that's what my mother actually used and what she
01:02:50
did with me. And I don't think she did that consciously. You know, it's not like she went on
01:02:56
the internet. I mean, besides there not being an internet back then, it's not like she went on the
01:03:02
internet and looked up, oh, how do you groom someone? And oh, what it is, like, what are the
01:03:06
five stages of grooming or whatever. And then she just went by them. She didn't do that consciously.
01:03:13
But she sort of did that automatically, because those are simply the most effective ways for a
01:03:22
pedophile. Beep that word if you can say that. Right. Yeah. A pedophile is a pedophile. There's
01:03:29
nothing to burp out. But those are the most effective ways for a pedophile to manipulate
01:03:35
his victim. And then she, she, she was unable to break out of that pattern. So it was not possible
01:03:42
for me to have a normal relationship with her. I assume after that, the door is shut. And yeah,
01:03:49
what can you do? Yeah, well, actually, actually, she just, well, last year, I got a call because I
01:03:55
didn't have any contact with her for like many, many years, for decades, actually. So now, now I
01:04:02
kind of regret that, you know, at least after the first decade or so, I should have, I should have
01:04:07
tried having contact with her again. I mean, like I said, I did, I did try to have contact with her.
01:04:13
And it just, it just didn't work. But still, now I feel that maybe, maybe I should have tried harder.
01:04:19
Because last year I got a call from, from someone that I knew from my childhood, and she told me
01:04:25
that my mother had passed away. And I didn't even know she wasn't that old, you know, she was 66.
01:04:33
I think, yeah, I think she was around, around 66. She wasn't old. I didn't expect her to die that
01:04:40
soon. I always, I was always hoping that someday it would be possible for me to have a normal
01:04:48
conversation with her and maybe to talk about all that. Yeah. And, you know, so that kind,
01:04:55
that came kind of suddenly, because I kept my distance and I needed distance. But that also
01:05:02
meant that no one was telling me about her. And no one was telling me that she was sick. I didn't,
01:05:09
I didn't know that she was sick at all. And I feel, you know, obviously they should have,
01:05:14
they knew that I wanted, that I needed distance and I didn't want to talk to her. But still,
01:05:20
they should have realized that if she's sick, then they should have told me about that. So it turns
01:05:25
out she was sick for a long time. And then she died. And yeah. So it seemed like even despite
01:05:33
everything you still had. Is it fair to say you still had love for her in a sense?
01:05:41
Well, definitely not the kind of love that she wanted from me. Yeah. So no, not that kind of
01:05:47
love, because that, that wasn't, that wasn't the appropriate kind of love. But obviously,
01:05:53
obviously I felt, I felt very sad. I did, I did. I mean, initially, initially, I didn't know how to
01:05:59
deal with it. But after having heard all the circumstances and having heard about her being
01:06:05
sick, I of course feel, feel very sorry for her. And I feel sorry that we were never able to,
01:06:11
to really talk about all that happened. And, you know, to, to maybe I was always, I was always
01:06:18
hoping that someday it would be possible to have a normal conversation with her and maybe have a
01:06:25
normal relationship with her and to move past all that has happened. Man, you have a very forgiving
01:06:34
heart. You know, some people with it, it's hard to let go of things. And then if they're wronged,
01:06:41
or if they're, you know, they've gone through certain things in their life. Sometimes they're,
01:06:48
they're wishing the worst for their perpetrator. But you on the other hand, you had a different
01:06:53
heart towards that this was your mother, but you still wanted to try to see if there was a way you
01:06:59
can resolve some of the things or just maybe find some kind of clarity as to it. Or you said work
01:07:06
past it or forgiving your perpetrator without forgiving, there, there's not going to be any
01:07:13
road to you starting to heal and work past the trauma that you've been dealt. So yeah, actually,
01:07:20
that's, that's precisely the aspect where me re establishing my own faith in God was, was important.
01:07:33
Was invaluable, actually. And, you know, even, even from a materialistic or atheist point of view,
01:07:42
that actually helps a lot. You know, even, even if you, even if you might not believe in God,
01:07:49
you got to admit that if someone believes in God and believes that eventually God will judge people,
01:07:59
it helps them not to judge people by themselves, right? Not to, and not, not to seek revenge.
01:08:10
I don't, I don't need to seek revenge, you know, because I believe God will judge people.
01:08:15
We spoke like this was one of those things that came up at the spur of the moment for me connecting
01:08:23
with you and then you having time and space today to share your story. And this, I knew a little bit
01:08:29
of what was going on before we, we started to have this conversation online. But I, yeah, I commend,
01:08:38
I commend you for, for being open and willing to share this with us today. And I know you're,
01:08:45
you're also, you're involved with a few things, right? I mean, like, say, if people listening
01:08:51
would like to reach out to you, they'd like to, you know, shoot a, shoot a message, say hello,
01:08:57
or just see what you're involved with. Is there any, anywhere, or any place that they could find
01:09:03
you online or offline? Well, yeah, you know, like, like we already mentioned, you know, I, I, I have
01:09:08
a YouTube channel that I haven't uploaded to in a while, but still, you know, people, people can
01:09:15
go there if they, if they want to just search for the last name is actually not my real name. I,
01:09:22
I just got it from 1984. It's, it's the, it's the antagonist in 1984, the, the enemy of Big
01:09:31
Brother, Emmanuel Goldstein. That's how you were pronounced in German anyway. So anyway, just,
01:09:36
just, just go on YouTube search for Emmanuel Goldstein and, and you'll find my channel. Cool.
01:09:42
I'm going to leave that, all of that information in the show notes so people can look you up
01:09:50
if they, if they so pleased. And 1984, that is one of my favorites. I've read it once. I've read
01:09:58
it again, and I'm probably going to read it a third time some, some time, but I have that book
01:10:04
and oh my goodness. What's the old saying that there's a, there was like a meme made out of it.
01:10:10
It's like 1984. Wasn't supposed to be an instruction manual. There you go. You knew, you knew, you knew
01:10:19
exactly where I was going with that one. Oh man. And two plus two does not equals five. Equals five.
01:10:29
Yes. If the party tells you it equals five, then it does. Man, this has been, even though
01:10:38
you, you shared a lot. Like you said, you were asking me what, are you comfortable with me sharing?
01:10:45
I'm like, just let it rip. I can go ahead and set a disclaimer beforehand. I'm not going to censor
01:10:51
anybody and I'm not going to say, no, this is off limits. Like, no, no, you go ahead and speak your
01:10:56
piece and let the people decide. We're all grown adults here. We had a good run. I feel like,
01:11:02
I mean, I really like your attitude. I appreciate your way of looking at things in life. I really,
01:11:09
that really, I hear this and it's refreshing to hear from me. And even though despite all of the
01:11:17
that you've been through, but you're still pushing, you're still fighting. And that's really what
01:11:21
this show is about. It's about highlighting stories of people that we all have our struggles. We all
01:11:26
started from different places and we all been through different things. Not to say this person
01:11:32
is worse or no, you don't understand. I mean, of course, our experiences are unique and they're
01:11:37
different. But the other point is that people have also found ways to overcome it. They found
01:11:45
ways to work on the recovery towards healing and living. Like you said, there's some things you're
01:11:51
not going to out. You're not going to wipe it out completely, but you can still find a way to live
01:11:59
a productive and meaningful life like you've done and that you're continuing to do. So that's a
01:12:06
beautiful thing to hear. And these are the type of stories that I so much appreciate and love to
01:12:13
share. So with that being said, is there anything else you'd like to leave the listeners off with
01:12:21
before we wrap this thing up? I believe that was a very good way of summarizing and ending it.
01:12:37
Okay, Emmanuel, I know I'm saying it wrong again. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Everyone says it differently.
01:12:51
It's got a different charm for everybody, right? Yeah, okay, well, thank you again. Thank you. Thank
01:13:00
you. Forgiveness. That was a big part of Emmanuel's healing process. To be able to forgive somebody
01:13:11
who abused him, who robbed him of his childhood, who did all these terrible things to him, his own
01:13:18
mother. But years later, he was able to come to terms with forgiving her, trying to reach out to her
01:13:27
in the hopes of maybe making a man's end, getting past that and possibly even building something,
01:13:34
or at least talking about what happened. That in itself takes courage. He credits his faith in God,
01:13:41
his faith that helped him along the way. But forgiveness. How many of us struggle with that?
01:13:49
Forgiving ourselves, forgiving those that have stepped in our toes and did us wrong. Those that
01:13:55
have burned us in the past, it's hard to forgive. But that grudge that we hold on to, that resentment,
01:14:03
it could be like a ball and chain and an ankle and tie us down. So his message of forgiveness
01:14:10
that spoke to me too. And also let the words echo that came from Emmanuel about anybody who's been
01:14:16
a victim of any type of abuse. Don't blame yourself. It's not your fault. Don't blame yourself.
01:14:24
He struggled with that and so many others struggle with that. Blaming themselves, holding themselves
01:14:31
responsible for the wrong that happened to them. But the only one who should be held responsible
01:14:37
for that is the perpetrator, not you. Emmanuel, for everything that you've been through,
01:14:43
everything that you pushed through, you found your way, you found healing, you found growth,
01:14:50
you found maturity, and you're in a better place now because of it. There's no doubt. You are a
01:14:58
giant amongst us. I want to thank you for sharing your words and sharing your story with us. It was
01:15:05
a spur of the moment thing. I spoke with him that day and he said he was available right then and
01:15:10
there. So we did it on the spot, not really on the spot, but about an hour and two after our first
01:15:16
message. So he was game and he was really interested in sharing his story. So thank you. My hat's off
01:15:22
to you. All the best. I'll leave all of his information in the description box in the show notes.
01:15:28
So anybody listening to a story and they want to check him out, check out his YouTube or getting
01:15:34
contact with him and just send him a line to let him know. Thank you for sharing your words.
01:15:40
And thank you to everybody listening. I see now that there's people from China,
01:15:46
Russia, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, New Zealand, Brazil. We've got people from Germany, of course,
01:15:54
the US from all over. So thank you to everybody that has been tuned in and everyone that has
01:16:01
been a part of the show. And you can always check out the website. You can leave a comment,
01:16:06
some feedback on any one of the shows and episodes that you listen to and that spoke to you and that
01:16:13
you appreciated. And you can also leave a message. And if you like, I can share that message on one
01:16:19
of the up and coming episodes and give you a shout out because I do appreciate everybody that has
01:16:25
been a part of this show and a part of this experience. Share it with someone you think
01:16:30
who might find value in it. And before I go, if you like to be a part of the show and share
01:16:38
your story or even a story of someone in your life that has impacted you in a positive way,
01:16:43
you could always reach out to me via email. I'd be happy to connect until next time and very soon. Peace.
01:17:03
Looking for a sign to know I'm on the right road and seen no signs and scare of course.