Real stories, told by real people.
Hope all is well with you? We're back with another one. Today Bob joins us, and he's got a story to tell.
I'm always excited to introduce a new guest and story on the Show. And this one in particular was special for reasons that go back to a childhood fear of mine. You see, when I was young I had this obsession with death. I was terrified of it. Not knowing exactly what lies beyond the grave. Is it the long sleep? Without sound, light, and in total darkness? Or will it be hell for some and heaven for others, according to what's written in the "good old book"?
Bob has gathered wisdom from over 100 near-death experiencers, and one of the main messages shared is "Love is the highest truth." Another message is that we are all "thoroughly interconnected." Two nuggets of wisdom I feel are important and worth sharing. Especially at a time when it seems society is becoming more divided and disconnected. With an open heart and mind I invite you to take in Bob's "Impressions of Near-Death Experiences' and sit with its message. May it feed your soul and light your path.
We're souls sharing in this whole evolutionary process of death, resurrection and rebirth. A cyclic transformation, much like a butterfly or the serpent shedding old skin. Let's get into it, shall we? Hope you enjoy our guest today, and I'm pleased to bring on another GIANTS AMONGST US.
Til next time
and very soon,
PEACE!
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_____
Robert (Bob) Christophor Coppes :
Website : https://www.bobcoppes.com/
_____
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@bnoizemusic
00:00:25 --> 00:00:46 you're Alright, alright. It's time to settle
00:00:46 --> 00:00:51 in, be present, and be. This is episode number
00:00:51 --> 00:00:55 53. I hope this finds you all in good spirits
00:00:55 --> 00:00:59 this is Giants amongst us a place where we share
00:00:59 --> 00:01:02 in the unique human experience and this is where
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 you're going to hear real stories that are told
00:01:05 --> 00:01:11 by real people people just like yourself so if
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 this is your first time tuning in what we do
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 over here is we talk story we share human connections
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 And you're going to hear people from all walks
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 of life with different challenges, different
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 struggles, different demons that they had to
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 face their own walk through the desert or the
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 wilderness alone, those trying time, those hard
00:01:32 --> 00:01:37 times. But the commonality is what changed in
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 their attitude, what shifted in their perspective
00:01:40 --> 00:01:44 to where they put themselves in a position. to
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 start creating new realities and new experiences
00:01:47 --> 00:01:50 for themselves, to start working towards healing,
00:01:51 --> 00:01:55 towards growth, transforming their behaviors,
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 their thought patterns, their inner dynamics,
00:01:58 --> 00:02:02 true growth, true change comes from the inside
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 out. We have to be willing to look inwards. We
00:02:05 --> 00:02:09 have to be willing to become aware of what's
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 happening inside of us so that we can get to
00:02:12 --> 00:02:16 the root and source of our attitudes our behaviors
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 some habits maybe that have been maladaptive
00:02:19 --> 00:02:23 and destructive even our own self -worth and
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 self -talk sometimes it could be negative sometimes
00:02:26 --> 00:02:29 it could be limiting these conditions that we've
00:02:29 --> 00:02:33 accepted as reality where do they come from?
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 do they come from a place of truth and love or
00:02:35 --> 00:02:39 do they come from? place of fear and ultimately
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 these are questions only we're able to answer
00:02:41 --> 00:02:45 once we start getting honest with ourselves and
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 you know being willing to take that ride through
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 that inner terrain that a lot of us avoid for
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 so many different reasons it could be unpleasant
00:02:54 --> 00:02:58 it's unfamiliar it's foreign uncharted territory
00:02:58 --> 00:03:02 but that's where the gold is but we have got
00:03:02 --> 00:03:06 to be willing to walk through that dry desolate
00:03:06 --> 00:03:11 barren desert where we might be stepping over
00:03:11 --> 00:03:15 skulls and bones skeletons old memories from
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 the past experiences that are still haunting
00:03:17 --> 00:03:21 us we've got to be willing to walk past that
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 to walk through it in order to find the land
00:03:24 --> 00:03:29 of milk and honey the promised land through all
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 these trials and tribulations that that we've
00:03:32 --> 00:03:37 gone through collectively you and I those experiences
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 are designed to point us towards a higher reality
00:03:40 --> 00:03:45 but not everybody is up for the call some are
00:03:45 --> 00:03:49 happy and satisfied with where they're at and
00:03:49 --> 00:03:53 with how things are going and that's fine so
00:03:53 --> 00:03:57 let me tie this all back into our conversation
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 today because today we're going to explore that
00:04:00 --> 00:04:05 mysterious and often terrified realm of the afterlife
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 Is there a life after death? Is it pitch black
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 and quietness? Is it peace and still? Is there
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 a hell? Is there a heaven that awaits us with
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 pearly gates? And those are a lot of questions
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 that I'm sure many of you have entertained once
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 or twice in your life. And that brings us to
00:04:23 --> 00:04:27 the conversation at hand. Today, Bob joins us
00:04:27 --> 00:04:31 and he's got a story to tell. Once you're on
00:04:31 --> 00:04:36 the other side and you are enveloped in this
00:04:36 --> 00:04:40 unconditional love you see where you did things
00:04:40 --> 00:04:44 that were not loving you see where you harmed
00:04:44 --> 00:04:49 others and moreover you don't see it only from
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 your own point of view but you will see it from
00:04:52 --> 00:04:56 the point of view of the other you become the
00:04:56 --> 00:05:01 other and that's that's a real the most direct
00:05:01 --> 00:05:05 way of understanding what your father goes through.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, this
00:05:10 --> 00:05:15 is Bob and his story. This ties into the human
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17 experience in general, because this show, this
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 is what I like to do is just engage with people
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23 from all walks of life who a lot of them have
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 overcome different struggles and challenges.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 But this is this is having to do with the human
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 experience in a different way. And just to give
00:05:30 --> 00:05:34 you a back story of another reason why this was
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 so interesting to me with your research and your
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 studies with near -death experiencers is the
00:05:39 --> 00:05:43 fact that when I was younger, I don't even think
00:05:43 --> 00:05:47 I was a teenager yet, maybe 11, 12, but there
00:05:47 --> 00:05:53 was this deep obsession that I had with death
00:05:53 --> 00:05:57 for some reason, so young, I was terrified of
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 it. I was afraid of it. I would have nightmares
00:05:59 --> 00:06:03 of falling, an endless pit of just darkness.
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 And I haven't really told too many people. My
00:06:07 --> 00:06:09 wife knows now. I guess there's going to be a
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 few other people that do know about this. But
00:06:12 --> 00:06:16 this was something that was. It was almost paralyzing.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 I couldn't stop thinking about it. I was afraid
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 of it I had anxiety because of it and I just
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 would have these reoccurring nightmares of falling
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 in a dark pit or The theme was just darkness,
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31 but I don't know exactly when that went away
00:06:31 --> 00:06:35 and that kind of lifted from my consciousness
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 that burden, but this was something that I have
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 been fascinated with a long time, and I know
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 that there's a lot of other people, they have
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 their anxieties about death, and that can translate
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 into the way they live their lives in the real
00:06:47 --> 00:06:51 world, if they're able to enjoy life and to live
00:06:51 --> 00:06:55 a life that is... fulfilling in any way and paralyzed
00:06:55 --> 00:06:59 with not to be able to appreciate the here and
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 now because they're so worried about what can
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 happen tomorrow and what's what's going to happen
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 after I leave this world so enough of all that
00:07:07 --> 00:07:11 Bob I just want to thank you for joining the
00:07:11 --> 00:07:15 show and how are you doing today yeah well my
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 day was Well filled. I was catching up with all
00:07:19 --> 00:07:24 the emails and then I went to a to one of my
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 the children that I look after and help with
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 their Dutch and arithmetic. And that was was
00:07:29 --> 00:07:33 very nice. It's a young, young child of nine
00:07:33 --> 00:07:37 years old. And he's having difficulties in school
00:07:37 --> 00:07:41 and I try to be his mentor. So that's what I
00:07:41 --> 00:07:43 did. Oh, that's great. That's great. That's true.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:47 You're retired now, correct? Yes. Yeah, I'm retired.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:51 Yeah, well, I have too much to do. So there's
00:07:51 --> 00:07:54 a lot of other things that I do. I work also
00:07:54 --> 00:07:59 for our pension fund and for the housing society.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 And I do this with children. And next to that,
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 apart from that, I also look into near -death
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 experiences because that is my topic. That's
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 the thing that I'm really interested in. And
00:08:12 --> 00:08:17 that's where I wrote several books for or about
00:08:17 --> 00:08:21 this topic. And the latest one, Impressions of
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 Near -Death Experiences, is one that I really
00:08:24 --> 00:08:28 liked because there are so many quotes of Andy
00:08:28 --> 00:08:32 Ears that are very interesting to just delve
00:08:32 --> 00:08:36 into. It's a multiple of these quotes of more
00:08:36 --> 00:08:41 than 100. and the years, near -death experiencers,
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44 and all together there are hundreds of quotes
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 in the book. It's very interesting. Yeah, I reached
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 out to you via email, and you were, you know,
00:08:50 --> 00:08:54 gracious enough to be on, and what also caught
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 my attention was because you hear a lot of stories.
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 I was down that rabbit hole one of many times,
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02 and you hear different stories and different
00:09:02 --> 00:09:06 accounts, but I like the take on... your research
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 and your studies is the fact that a lot of these
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 accounts and testimonies have been verified,
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 correct, from nurses and medical staff that have
00:09:14 --> 00:09:18 been in the room? Yeah, that's, you know, that's,
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 I think, the most important part of telling about
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26 near -death experiences to others, because these
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 stories in itself are very nice. They're like,
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 they're almost fairytale. tale -like stories.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:37 It's so nice with unconditional love and a good
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 feeling on the other side, welcoming feeling.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 It's such a nice, always such nice stories. But
00:09:44 --> 00:09:50 are they real? And that's where I think Circumstantial
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 evidence is very important, especially when they
00:09:53 --> 00:09:57 come from nurses or people by standing and they
00:09:57 --> 00:10:02 confirm independently that the NDE 'er had seen
00:10:02 --> 00:10:07 the right things. I'll give you an example. The
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 first phase of an NDE is most of the time where
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 people leave their body. and see their own body
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 from a distance most of the time from just below
00:10:17 --> 00:10:21 the ceiling and if it's in an operating dome
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 they see what the doctors do or what the nurses
00:10:24 --> 00:10:28 do most of the time they will be able to to recount
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 the whole procedure and sometimes things are
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36 very odd or very special during this procedure
00:10:36 --> 00:10:40 and they they are able to to tell that because
00:10:40 --> 00:10:44 they see it. They see it happening. So you have
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 to imagine you're lying there on a stretcher
00:10:46 --> 00:10:50 or wherever. You're out. Nevertheless, you can
00:10:50 --> 00:10:54 see everything because the spiritual part of
00:10:54 --> 00:10:59 you or your spirit or your ghost is outside your
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 body and can see everything. And there are hundreds
00:11:02 --> 00:11:06 of these accounts that have been verified independently.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:10 And that's where it starts to be important because
00:11:10 --> 00:11:15 this gives us circumstantial evidence that these
00:11:15 --> 00:11:19 near -death experiences are based in real stuff,
00:11:19 --> 00:11:23 that they are actually real. Right. Just to go
00:11:23 --> 00:11:28 back a bit, could I ask you what piqued your
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 interest or how did you get involved with being
00:11:30 --> 00:11:33 so interested in near -death experiences? Ah,
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 that's, that's because I, well, actually I was
00:11:35 --> 00:11:39 always very much interested in spirituality.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 I was raised Roman Catholic, but that didn't
00:11:42 --> 00:11:47 give me the right answers because there was hell
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 and purgatory there and that didn't sit well
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54 with me. Not that I just didn't want to have
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 that. It's supposedly that you, well, not everyone
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00 goes to heaven according to Roman Catholicism.
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 But it was more that it didn't resonate with
00:12:03 --> 00:12:07 me. And then I read Raymond Moody's book. And
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 that's the guy who coined the term near -death
00:12:10 --> 00:12:15 experiences. He came up with these kind of experiences
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 because he was a medical doctor. And in his practice,
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 there were a number of people who had such an
00:12:21 --> 00:12:26 experience. And in his book, which was published
00:12:26 --> 00:12:34 in 1976, I read about people who had such an
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 experience and in that experience sometimes they
00:12:37 --> 00:12:41 have a life review. And that's what it is. You
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45 see your life, you can go into details, you can
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 see every little thing you did to someone else
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 or you did for someone else. But you see it also
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 from the other side. You see it from the person
00:12:54 --> 00:12:59 that is connected with you. or that you did something
00:12:59 --> 00:13:03 for or something against. But the interesting
00:13:03 --> 00:13:07 thing was that if you look at all these end years
00:13:07 --> 00:13:12 with life reviews, they never speak about judgment.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 They say there is no judgment. And that is typically
00:13:16 --> 00:13:20 where in Roman Catholicism, you are being sent
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 to the left or to the right, or maybe you go
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 to purgatory. and you can stay there for a while
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 and then hope to go to heaven. But there is a
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 hell and purgatory in Catholicism and in near
00:13:32 --> 00:13:37 -death experiences, there is no such thing. Everyone
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 is welcomed there, and there is unconditional
00:13:40 --> 00:13:44 love for everyone, and it's unconditional. The
00:13:44 --> 00:13:49 ears really say that they stress the unconditionality
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 of the love that is received on the other side.
00:13:53 --> 00:13:55 So it doesn't matter what you have done, whether
00:13:55 --> 00:14:00 you're a nice person according to our morals
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 nowadays or where you have been a bad person,
00:14:03 --> 00:14:07 but everyone will receive that unconditional
00:14:07 --> 00:14:10 love. That's the idea that comes from near -death
00:14:10 --> 00:14:14 experiences. That could be encouraging for, say,
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 somebody who has a... Well, we all have our past
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 and we all have we've made mistakes We've acted
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 out of selfishness and carelessness and on some
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 can you know, we can hold on to it and weak It's
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 we have a hard time forgiving ourselves. But
00:14:29 --> 00:14:33 uh, but also is that I want to play not the devil's
00:14:33 --> 00:14:40 advocate advocate I mean just say for somebody
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 on the outside saying well then that just gives
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 someone A license to kill, to eat, drink, be
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 merry, harm anybody because they know that they're
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 going to get roses and they're going to get a
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 nice parade at the end of the day anyway. So
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57 yeah, yeah, that's you could see it like that.
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 But that's that's not how it really is, because
00:15:00 --> 00:15:05 once you're on the other side and you are enveloped
00:15:05 --> 00:15:09 in this unconditional love, you see where you
00:15:09 --> 00:15:13 did things that were not loving. you see where
00:15:13 --> 00:15:18 you harmed others and moreover you don't see
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 it only from your own point of view but you will
00:15:21 --> 00:15:25 see it from the point of view of the other you
00:15:25 --> 00:15:30 become the other and that's that's a real the
00:15:30 --> 00:15:35 most direct way of understanding what an other
00:15:35 --> 00:15:39 goes through according with your actions so whatever
00:15:39 --> 00:15:43 you did you will see what the other went through
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 with your actions and that is something that
00:15:46 --> 00:15:50 you will always like very much because you understand
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 the pain on the other side you will feel the
00:15:53 --> 00:15:58 pain on the other side firsthand you will feel
00:15:58 --> 00:16:02 it as if you are that other person so It's not
00:16:02 --> 00:16:07 it's not a license to kill a nice phrase by the
00:16:07 --> 00:16:11 way, but it's it's it's different. Yeah, I was
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 raised. Well, when we were younger, we would
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 go to Catholic Church and then there was a time
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 where I just I had a friend of mine. He invited
00:16:19 --> 00:16:23 me to a Christian church and I did. It was a
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 Pentecostal church and I really was devoted.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 I was sold on that idea for about a year, two
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 years. I was preaching the Bible. I was going
00:16:31 --> 00:16:33 door to door and I was outreaching and I'm like,
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 you need to see the light and turn from your
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 sinful ways. But also I had questions. I had
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 my doubts and the answers that I was getting
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 and what I was feeling inside wasn't satisfying.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:50 And that's when I decided to turn from it. But
00:16:50 --> 00:16:54 there are a lot of people also that do have the...
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 I've spoken with ex -Colt members and Jehovah's
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 Witnesses. Some of these members, they consider
00:17:01 --> 00:17:05 the... body of religion, they consider it a cult
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 and so that's just coming from their own words.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:12 But the traumatization of the hell and fury,
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 the fire and brimstone, and there's no escape
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 from it. But I like that idea that you say that
00:17:20 --> 00:17:24 after we move from this life and this life review
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 and what we've done to somebody and what we've
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 done to ourselves. We're actually not just going
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 to see what we've done to somebody else and how
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 they experienced it, but we're going to experience
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 it for ourselves. That puts a different light
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 on it. Yeah, but from the other side, we will
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 experience it from the other side. So you have
00:17:43 --> 00:17:47 both point of views. but you also have an independent
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 point of view. That's what I understand from
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 so many NDEers. So you have three points of views.
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 Your own point of view, the point of view of
00:17:56 --> 00:18:01 the other, and some other neutral point of view
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 without any judgment. You know, and that also
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 brings to mind of how a lot of religions in their
00:18:07 --> 00:18:11 own way have that rule where it's treat others
00:18:11 --> 00:18:15 the way you would want to be treated. Yeah. Yeah,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 actually all of the religions that I know of
00:18:18 --> 00:18:23 they have that golden rule Some way or another
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 so it's it's sometimes it's said in a different
00:18:26 --> 00:18:30 way But it's it's the same thing all over again.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 Don't treat or treat others the way you'd like
00:18:33 --> 00:18:38 to be treated yourself And that's it. Yeah And
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 I just wanted to mention also when you see what
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 you did to others as if you are the other there's
00:18:43 --> 00:18:47 still no There's still no judgment on the other
00:18:47 --> 00:18:50 side It's not necessary because you can there's
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54 one person that said very nicely. There was a
00:18:54 --> 00:18:58 little boy 14 years old and he saw his life review
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 in the presence of an angel. That's what he said
00:19:01 --> 00:19:05 and then And he asked the angel what happens
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 now and then the angel said you will be judged
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 by the most powerful judge there is. And then
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 the little boy said, when will that happen? And
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 then the angel says to him, it already happened.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:22 The judge, that's you. So it means that if there
00:19:22 --> 00:19:27 is a judge, the judge is you. And even then there
00:19:27 --> 00:19:32 are stories where people, well, were very sad
00:19:32 --> 00:19:36 and negative about what they did to others. And
00:19:36 --> 00:19:40 then the light or the angels or the spiritual
00:19:40 --> 00:19:45 beings who are present there would take their
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 point of view and would just say, don't be so
00:19:48 --> 00:19:52 hard on yourself. Don't judge yourself too harshly.
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 There's a reason why you did that, that you came
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 from somewhere. And so did the other people who
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 did something to you. We all come from somewhere.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 There's always a reason why we do things that
00:20:04 --> 00:20:08 we do. But the main message is always that love
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13 is very important. And if we concentrate on it,
00:20:13 --> 00:20:18 it will grow. If you give a lot of love, you'll
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 really love to see your life review. You will
00:20:21 --> 00:20:26 be enthusiastic about it. Still no judgment.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:31 Still no judgment. I encountered a lot of accounts
00:20:31 --> 00:20:34 and I would assume that you've also spoken with
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 some of these people you've had conversations
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 with them in some dialogue and one one way shape
00:20:39 --> 00:20:44 or form have you have you ever came across any
00:20:44 --> 00:20:51 that have described some type of form, way, shape
00:20:51 --> 00:20:55 of a hell or what the Bible does speak of where
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 you have this, because I've heard of accounts
00:20:57 --> 00:21:01 of this in interviews, but not to say that I
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 know if there was any circumstantial evidence
00:21:04 --> 00:21:08 to prove if this is just somebody. speaking and
00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 you have to take it subjectively. And I don't
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14 know if you've heard anything personally or have
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 come across people explaining or sharing some
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 type of experience like that. Yeah. And the answer
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 is, yes, that's a short answer. I came across
00:21:23 --> 00:21:27 people who have had such an experience and in
00:21:27 --> 00:21:32 research. And we know that there are people who
00:21:32 --> 00:21:36 have had a very distressing NDE, a very stressing
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 distressing near -death experience. And let me
00:21:39 --> 00:21:43 explain to you that this is still a subset of
00:21:43 --> 00:21:47 the number of NDEs that we have out there. Although
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 it's difficult to put a number on it because
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 typically people who have had such a distressing
00:21:53 --> 00:21:58 NDE will not be happy to come forward. So the
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 number of people that we see may be smaller than
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 the number that they're out there. But it's still,
00:22:04 --> 00:22:09 well, something like five to maybe 20 % of the
00:22:09 --> 00:22:13 people who come forward with an NDE say they
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 have had some kind of distressing element in
00:22:16 --> 00:22:21 it. So the distressing element can be very small
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 or insignificant. One of the things, for instance,
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 is people who travel through tunnel when you
00:22:28 --> 00:22:32 exit your body. Some people talk about traveling
00:22:32 --> 00:22:37 through a tunnel at a high speed. And for some
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 people, that's a distressing element. If you
00:22:40 --> 00:22:44 subtract those from the number, there is still
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 a smaller number. But still, there are people
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 out there that have had a real distressing NDE
00:22:50 --> 00:22:55 with hellish elements in it. But we have researched
00:22:55 --> 00:22:59 that as well. And one of the things we came to
00:22:59 --> 00:23:03 a conclusion and we is not myself only but other
00:23:03 --> 00:23:07 researchers is that you cannot say that people
00:23:07 --> 00:23:11 who have had a distressing NDE have been bad
00:23:11 --> 00:23:15 people apart from how do you define bad people
00:23:15 --> 00:23:20 because morality changes in the course of time
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 and people who've had a blissful NDE are not
00:23:23 --> 00:23:28 always very nice people are not like a saint
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 kind of people. There are examples of people
00:23:31 --> 00:23:36 who have had been killing a lot of others. In
00:23:36 --> 00:23:41 this case, there's an example. He killed a lot
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 of people for an American organization, one of
00:23:43 --> 00:23:47 the government organizations, and he went abroad.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 He still had a blissful NDE. His life review
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 was horrible. But the rest of his experience
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58 was wonderful because in his life review he saw
00:23:58 --> 00:24:04 each of his kills as he said that he said i saw.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 The lives of the people that i killed i became
00:24:07 --> 00:24:11 the receiver that's what he said receiver. being
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 the other person, the person that he killed,
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 but also the wives of these people that he killed
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 and the children of the people that he killed.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:24 He was able to feel all the feelings of everyone
00:24:24 --> 00:24:28 around. And he said that was really distressing,
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 but the rest of my experience was really blissful
00:24:31 --> 00:24:36 because I got unconditional love anyway. And
00:24:36 --> 00:24:41 then there are people that have led a very common
00:24:41 --> 00:24:47 life who talk about distressing NDE with distressing
00:24:47 --> 00:24:52 elements in it. So we cannot say that if you
00:24:52 --> 00:24:56 have had a distressing NDE, you must have been
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 a bad person. And if you had a blissful NDE,
00:24:59 --> 00:25:03 you must have been a very good person. So there
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 must be another reason why people have such an
00:25:06 --> 00:25:11 experience. And the theory is that people have
00:25:11 --> 00:25:16 such a distressing experience because elements
00:25:16 --> 00:25:21 from the collective consciousness pop out and
00:25:21 --> 00:25:25 then come into your mind or things that come
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 from your own. personal conscious, so the things
00:25:29 --> 00:25:34 you have experienced in life, there is an example
00:25:34 --> 00:25:38 that comes to my mind is of a woman who had been
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 raped several times and who was so much afraid
00:25:41 --> 00:25:46 of AIDS and had a very confining religious upbringing
00:25:46 --> 00:25:51 with also hell and purgatory and she had the
00:25:51 --> 00:25:55 whole... charade with horrible things with rapes
00:25:55 --> 00:25:59 in her near -death experience and attracting
00:25:59 --> 00:26:04 aids and things like that so it was a very distressing
00:26:04 --> 00:26:08 kind of hellish experience that she had but later
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 she could really see a say also well that's because
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 I've had all these judgments all these ideas
00:26:16 --> 00:26:21 all these traumas that I had on earth. And that's
00:26:21 --> 00:26:25 why I had all this stuff in my near -death experience.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 Now, having said this, I also have to tell you
00:26:28 --> 00:26:32 that there are near -death experiencers who explicitly
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 tell me that there is no hell and purgatory.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:39 And that's what I believe. I think it is something
00:26:39 --> 00:26:44 that plays in your mind or of some people's minds
00:26:44 --> 00:26:49 who have a near -death experience. but eventually
00:26:49 --> 00:26:53 it will disappear because of what I just said
00:26:53 --> 00:26:56 and also because of what some near -death experiences
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 tell me that there is no hell and no purgatory.
00:26:59 --> 00:27:03 We all go there to this otherworldly environment.
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 That's a wonderful environment. Wow, that's a
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10 lot of neat information. That was something that
00:27:10 --> 00:27:14 I contemplated on a while back just when... Even
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 to this day, this is something that I'm at. I'm
00:27:17 --> 00:27:20 more at peace with death now. I'm not terrified
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22 of it. I'm not I'm not looking for it either.
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 I like to enjoy the time that I have here. But
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 I have a better relationship with it. And it's
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 just a part of life. I feel as if we're spiritual
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 beings having a human experience. Exactly. That's
00:27:33 --> 00:27:36 that's also what end of year say exactly that.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:39 And for the longest, I also thought when I would
00:27:39 --> 00:27:42 hear of all these different accounts, you with
00:27:42 --> 00:27:45 near -death experiences. I don't know the background,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:49 whether these near -death experiences were confirmed
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 in any way, but you would hear so many different
00:27:51 --> 00:27:55 accounts of the hell, the torments, and you would
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 also hear of heaven, or you would hear of a bright
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 light. All these different accounts, and like
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 you mentioned with the collective consciousness,
00:28:02 --> 00:28:06 or maybe just a residue of what has been a belief
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 structure in their being before they... left
00:28:09 --> 00:28:13 in their spirit when elsewhere, united with the
00:28:13 --> 00:28:17 collective that this was what they experienced
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19 because this is what they knew beforehand. And
00:28:19 --> 00:28:22 so it was kind of the residue that was left.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 But again, I just want to stress that the majority
00:28:25 --> 00:28:29 of the NDEs are really blissful and only a subset
00:28:29 --> 00:28:33 are distressing. And in a number of cases, we
00:28:33 --> 00:28:38 can pinpoint why that is because of traumas because
00:28:38 --> 00:28:44 of personal experiences, things like that. Have
00:28:44 --> 00:28:48 you, with the accounts that you've studied and
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50 researched, have you did any follow -ups say
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 a year after or two years after to see where
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 they're at, if it changed, if there was some
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 kind of long -lasting impact on the way that
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 they viewed life or the way that they were living
00:28:59 --> 00:29:02 their life? Well, that's interesting that you
00:29:02 --> 00:29:08 ask. There have been very nice research is done,
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 prospective researchers, that's a technical term
00:29:11 --> 00:29:15 to tell that they are reproducible. So you can
00:29:15 --> 00:29:19 do that somewhere else, the same protocol and
00:29:19 --> 00:29:24 then see what the outcome is. The first of such
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 a study was done in my country, in the Netherlands,
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 and then others were done in the United States
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 and the UK with the same kind of outcome. And
00:29:32 --> 00:29:36 then the study in the Netherlands, they also
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 had a time study in the sense that they asked
00:29:39 --> 00:29:43 people one year later, and I think eight years
00:29:43 --> 00:29:48 later about their NDE. And the interesting thing
00:29:48 --> 00:29:52 was that the NDE didn't change. So the story
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 they had was the same. The narrative was the
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59 same. So they didn't add to it and they didn't
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 subtract from it. Most of the time they even
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 use the same words. So it is totally different
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 from a dream, because a dream you just forget
00:30:08 --> 00:30:13 very soon. And a hallucination has no narrative.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 That's just a chaotic thing that goes on in your
00:30:17 --> 00:30:22 mind. But these experiences are lasting in the
00:30:22 --> 00:30:26 sense that even eight years after the fact, people
00:30:26 --> 00:30:31 still had the same recollection. And also, it
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 was coherent. There is a storyline in it. It's
00:30:34 --> 00:30:38 not a chaotic thing like in a hallucination.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41 Well, that's pretty impressive now, especially
00:30:41 --> 00:30:45 if we're talking about eight years after to recall
00:30:45 --> 00:30:49 a story or to recall an experience and to have
00:30:49 --> 00:30:54 it very, very similar, if not exact to the way
00:30:54 --> 00:30:57 that you first described it because I just know
00:30:57 --> 00:31:01 going back on when I say something and if I'm
00:31:01 --> 00:31:04 thinking eight years later for me to recall that
00:31:04 --> 00:31:07 and speak it, it's going to be completely different.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 So this had to be a very impactful experience
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 that impressed me. Oh, they are so impactful,
00:31:14 --> 00:31:18 really. They are life -changing. Yeah, that was
00:31:18 --> 00:31:22 another reason why I asked that was because of
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25 the fact that not only of how it viewed their
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 life, but if they were living a life that they
00:31:27 --> 00:31:31 weren't really satisfied with or content with
00:31:31 --> 00:31:35 or happy with. And so after that event, if you
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 would follow up research, seeing that some people,
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 they changed their lives and took a better course
00:31:40 --> 00:31:42 and started to do things differently because
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45 of that experience. Well, yeah, in principle,
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 yes. Most of the times people change their lives,
00:31:49 --> 00:31:53 they become less interested in money and less
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 interested in power and more interested in other
00:31:56 --> 00:32:00 people. and being together with others and in
00:32:00 --> 00:32:04 nature. They start loving nature. They start
00:32:04 --> 00:32:09 doing artworks, looking at the nice sides of
00:32:09 --> 00:32:13 life. So there is a real change. They become
00:32:13 --> 00:32:17 more spiritual and there are several other aspects,
00:32:17 --> 00:32:21 after effects. Some people even become mediumistic
00:32:21 --> 00:32:27 or psychic. Oh, wow. Well, because the idea is,
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 I think that they have been on the other side.
00:32:30 --> 00:32:34 And when they had to come back again, the door
00:32:34 --> 00:32:39 is still a jar. So it doesn't really close all
00:32:39 --> 00:32:43 the way. So you still have some kind of information
00:32:43 --> 00:32:48 that you can find or get or it is imprinted in
00:32:48 --> 00:32:52 you. And then they can see through time, or they
00:32:52 --> 00:32:57 can see things about your life, someone else's
00:32:57 --> 00:33:03 life, or they can see even deceased people. But
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 these are sort of the after effects. But the
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09 thing is that people, and the years, I want to
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 stress they don't become saints, even though
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 they have been on the other side and they have
00:33:14 --> 00:33:19 seen the light and God and you know who. they
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21 still don't become saints because they still
00:33:21 --> 00:33:25 are human beings with their flaws that they were
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 born with or that they nurtured during life.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 But they understand that most of the time they
00:33:32 --> 00:33:35 come back with the idea that love is very important,
00:33:37 --> 00:33:41 that every person's life is important, no matter
00:33:41 --> 00:33:47 what, even the lives of people that we find in
00:33:47 --> 00:33:50 unimportant, like maybe the beggar in the street,
00:33:51 --> 00:33:56 or you just name it. Every single life is important.
00:33:57 --> 00:34:01 That's what they say. And not one, they say that
00:34:01 --> 00:34:05 all. Every person is important. The people that
00:34:05 --> 00:34:10 have challenges, it is important to struggle
00:34:10 --> 00:34:14 with these challenges and to try to... get out
00:34:14 --> 00:34:18 of these challenges and solve them, or to come
00:34:18 --> 00:34:21 out of the struggles that you are in. But the
00:34:21 --> 00:34:25 main thing that I understand from end years is
00:34:25 --> 00:34:28 that love is the most important thing. So if
00:34:28 --> 00:34:34 you look for love, if you give love, then you're
00:34:34 --> 00:34:36 doing the right way already. So you're halfway
00:34:36 --> 00:34:41 there. I hope everybody's enjoying the conversation
00:34:41 --> 00:34:45 so far with Bob and talks and explorations and
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 accounts of the afterlife. Real quick, something
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 I just would like to invite anybody who is really
00:34:51 --> 00:34:54 into the show. You don't even have to be really
00:34:54 --> 00:34:58 into the show, but you appreciate the show and
00:34:58 --> 00:35:01 you value these conversations, these topics,
00:35:01 --> 00:35:04 you value sharing in the human experience and
00:35:04 --> 00:35:07 you'd like to support the show. One thing and
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 one way you can support the show free of charge
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12 it's not going to cost you a dime just maybe
00:35:12 --> 00:35:15 a few minutes of your time is you can go over
00:35:15 --> 00:35:18 to the links that are in the show notes and you
00:35:18 --> 00:35:20 can click on one of those links and it'll send
00:35:20 --> 00:35:22 you over to a platform where you can leave a
00:35:22 --> 00:35:25 rating or you can leave a review that's going
00:35:25 --> 00:35:28 to do one of two things it's going to help these
00:35:28 --> 00:35:30 conversations and these stories fall in the ears
00:35:30 --> 00:35:34 of new listeners and you can also help us on
00:35:34 --> 00:35:37 the back end if you're leaving some kind of constructive
00:35:37 --> 00:35:40 criticism, things we can do to maybe better the
00:35:40 --> 00:35:43 overall listening experience and it continue
00:35:43 --> 00:35:47 to create something that is both meaningful and
00:35:47 --> 00:35:51 valuable. This is truly a passion project. You
00:35:51 --> 00:35:54 can always get updates on the show. You can listen
00:35:54 --> 00:35:57 to past stories and past guests, and you can
00:35:57 --> 00:36:02 read up on extra miscellaneous articles and thoughts
00:36:02 --> 00:36:08 at Giants Amongst Us. Now, let's get back to
00:36:08 --> 00:36:13 Bob and his studies of the afterlife. Interesting.
00:36:13 --> 00:36:16 Just to mention, there's one of these NDEs was
00:36:16 --> 00:36:19 a little child. The story comes to my mind suddenly.
00:36:20 --> 00:36:25 She was abducted by two men and she was drowned.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:30 They were trying to drown her. And then she had
00:36:30 --> 00:36:32 her near death experience and she went through
00:36:32 --> 00:36:36 this tunnel. Not everyone has a tunnel, so every
00:36:36 --> 00:36:39 NDE is different. But she went through the tunnel.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:42 At the end of the tunnel, there was this elderly
00:36:42 --> 00:36:46 person who blocked the way and who said, you're
00:36:46 --> 00:36:50 not done yet on Earth. You have to go back. And
00:36:50 --> 00:36:53 she said, that must have been God. No one else
00:36:53 --> 00:36:56 is there, so it must be God. And she had a conversation
00:36:56 --> 00:37:00 with him. Even though he blocked the way, he
00:37:00 --> 00:37:03 had a conversation with her and he said, you
00:37:03 --> 00:37:06 have to go back. Life is not too difficult. There
00:37:06 --> 00:37:08 are four ingredients you just have to abide by.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:11 And those are the next ones, the following ones.
00:37:12 --> 00:37:17 So it's love, be loved, just be and experience
00:37:17 --> 00:37:22 life. So love, be loved, just be and experience
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 life. Well, love and... Be loved, those are very
00:37:26 --> 00:37:30 important in itself because so many NDR say that.
00:37:30 --> 00:37:35 So we have to give love away, allow others to
00:37:35 --> 00:37:38 give you love, which is sometimes also very difficult.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:44 Just be, just be who you are. You're good enough
00:37:44 --> 00:37:50 as you are and then experience life. Enjoy life
00:37:50 --> 00:37:54 also. That's also the idea. Just also enjoy the
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 things that we can enjoy, like the wind in your
00:37:57 --> 00:38:02 hair or the sunshine on your face or the niceties
00:38:02 --> 00:38:05 that people give to you or that you can give
00:38:05 --> 00:38:08 to someone else. Do you name it? Smile, smile
00:38:08 --> 00:38:12 to others. Those things are important too. Just
00:38:12 --> 00:38:18 enjoy that. That's so simple. Love, be loved,
00:38:18 --> 00:38:25 be and enjoy. and experience life and that those
00:38:25 --> 00:38:29 are so simple but powerful. I know what you mean
00:38:29 --> 00:38:35 when you spoke of some people find it hard too.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:37 receive the love, sometimes because we feel we're
00:38:37 --> 00:38:40 not worthy enough. You feel as if you're not
00:38:40 --> 00:38:42 deserving enough. And this can come from a lot
00:38:42 --> 00:38:45 of different reasons. Maybe you were told that
00:38:45 --> 00:38:47 when you were younger, maybe there was a... Maybe
00:38:47 --> 00:38:52 you learned it, accept love, or you're not worthy
00:38:52 --> 00:38:55 of it, or whatever reason. Receiving love is
00:38:55 --> 00:38:58 a difficult thing too. And it can also be when
00:38:58 --> 00:39:02 you receive love, this can also... you're leaving
00:39:02 --> 00:39:08 vulnerability because now you can also have the
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 feeling of that love maybe going away or being
00:39:11 --> 00:39:13 taken away. And now there's a hurt in your heart.
00:39:13 --> 00:39:16 And so that leaves vulnerability. But that's
00:39:16 --> 00:39:18 part of the experience, isn't it? The emotions
00:39:18 --> 00:39:20 that you're dealing with, the good and the bad,
00:39:20 --> 00:39:24 and you embrace all of it. Exactly. And the other
00:39:24 --> 00:39:27 thing is that there is also a feeling of interconnection
00:39:27 --> 00:39:33 between people. If you ask me, there will be
00:39:33 --> 00:39:36 two things that I think are very important from
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 an NDE. The first one is the love part that we
00:39:39 --> 00:39:45 discussed just now, but there is also the notion
00:39:45 --> 00:39:50 of the interconnection between people. So many
00:39:50 --> 00:39:52 people with an NDE come back and they say, we
00:39:52 --> 00:39:57 are so closely connected with everyone. also
00:39:57 --> 00:40:00 with the people you don't like. We can always
00:40:00 --> 00:40:02 think of someone that we don't like. It could
00:40:02 --> 00:40:05 be a politician or the neighbor around the door
00:40:05 --> 00:40:09 on the other side of the block or someone at
00:40:09 --> 00:40:12 work. But we are interconnected with everyone,
00:40:13 --> 00:40:16 every single person on earth and every animal
00:40:16 --> 00:40:19 with whole nature. There are also people with
00:40:19 --> 00:40:23 NDEs that say we are all one. And what I just
00:40:23 --> 00:40:28 mentioned before, um with live reviews that you
00:40:28 --> 00:40:32 can feel what an other feels as if you are the
00:40:32 --> 00:40:38 other that's a very direct way of being the same
00:40:38 --> 00:40:42 person as the other you become the other for
00:40:42 --> 00:40:46 a little time so the interconnection goes further
00:40:46 --> 00:40:50 than just being interconnected it's it's it's
00:40:50 --> 00:40:55 like we are Others we are each other and that's
00:40:55 --> 00:40:59 the reason why we have to be Well, we have to
00:40:59 --> 00:41:02 we don't have to do anything but it's nicer if
00:41:02 --> 00:41:06 we are nice to each other That that's also what
00:41:06 --> 00:41:09 I I try to explain to people if you look at the
00:41:09 --> 00:41:13 conflicts in the world like now in Israel with
00:41:13 --> 00:41:18 Israel and Gaza or Russia and Ukraine the people
00:41:18 --> 00:41:22 that are shooting at each other They will feel
00:41:22 --> 00:41:26 what the other side feels as if they are the
00:41:26 --> 00:41:29 other side. They will understand where the other
00:41:29 --> 00:41:33 side comes from. So the Hamas people understand
00:41:33 --> 00:41:36 the Israeli side and the Israeli people will
00:41:36 --> 00:41:39 understand the Palestinian side. That's the reason
00:41:39 --> 00:41:41 why I say just stop it because you're hurting
00:41:41 --> 00:41:44 yourself. You will be hurting yourself because
00:41:44 --> 00:41:48 you will feel what the other side goes through.
00:41:48 --> 00:41:51 as if you are the other because we are the same.
00:41:51 --> 00:41:56 We are one. There is an interconnection and that
00:41:56 --> 00:41:58 interconnection goes very deep. And that means
00:41:58 --> 00:42:02 that what I do to another, I will feel for myself.
00:42:03 --> 00:42:06 Yeah, I've heard that often from people in different
00:42:06 --> 00:42:10 ways and and even from old old text and even
00:42:10 --> 00:42:13 religious scriptures, different religious scriptures.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:16 But that that the fact that what you're doing
00:42:16 --> 00:42:19 to other people is ultimately what you're doing
00:42:19 --> 00:42:22 to yourself. It also, if you just think about
00:42:22 --> 00:42:26 the way that you're harming your fellow brother
00:42:26 --> 00:42:29 or your fellow sister, that translates into the
00:42:29 --> 00:42:33 chaos and what we see in the world today where
00:42:33 --> 00:42:38 it can be just a lot of violence or, like you
00:42:38 --> 00:42:40 said, the wars and things. I mean, it's just
00:42:40 --> 00:42:44 a... a ripple effect of what goes on from the
00:42:44 --> 00:42:46 smaller scale when it just spills out into a
00:42:46 --> 00:42:50 larger scale and affects humanity at large. And
00:42:50 --> 00:42:52 what you mentioned just now, the word ripple
00:42:52 --> 00:42:54 effect is something that is mentioned by end
00:42:54 --> 00:42:58 years also. So whatever you do, it has an effect
00:42:58 --> 00:43:02 somewhere. It may not be in your environment,
00:43:02 --> 00:43:04 but it will be somewhere. Let me give you an
00:43:04 --> 00:43:06 example there, because there was a woman who
00:43:06 --> 00:43:10 had her a near -death experience, and in her
00:43:10 --> 00:43:13 near -death experience, she saw her life review.
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16 But when it was over, she thought, hmm, well,
00:43:16 --> 00:43:22 that was not too bad. She was satisfied. And
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24 then they played her life review all over again
00:43:24 --> 00:43:29 and showed the little things, the small moments,
00:43:29 --> 00:43:32 the insignificant moments where she was in the
00:43:32 --> 00:43:36 line at the cashier. or where she was in the
00:43:36 --> 00:43:39 car or where she was crossing the street. And
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42 she could have smiled to someone because she
00:43:42 --> 00:43:46 said she gave an example. She saw this person
00:43:46 --> 00:43:50 that if she had smiled at this guy at that moment
00:43:50 --> 00:43:54 in the street, then this guy would have not gone
00:43:54 --> 00:43:59 home so very angry because that was the feeling
00:43:59 --> 00:44:01 that he was crossing the street with. And when
00:44:01 --> 00:44:06 he came home, he he would bully and harass his
00:44:06 --> 00:44:09 wife and children. If she would have smiled,
00:44:09 --> 00:44:12 it would not have been that harsh. It would have.
00:44:13 --> 00:44:16 And that the smile is not big, but the effect
00:44:16 --> 00:44:19 is big. I 100 percent agree that. And I think
00:44:19 --> 00:44:24 everybody can think back and recall a time or
00:44:24 --> 00:44:26 a place where something like that was evident.
00:44:26 --> 00:44:28 And I've been there also where there was just
00:44:28 --> 00:44:32 one moment where you're at the brink of losing
00:44:32 --> 00:44:36 it and somebody a stranger just randomly and
00:44:36 --> 00:44:38 normally this wouldn't happen it's like why does
00:44:38 --> 00:44:41 this happen why is he doing this now was very
00:44:41 --> 00:44:46 kind and just giving a smile and saying something
00:44:46 --> 00:44:50 that lifted my spirits up and completely changed
00:44:50 --> 00:44:53 the way I was viewing my situation and circumstance
00:44:53 --> 00:44:56 in that moment and who knows had that not happened
00:44:56 --> 00:45:00 maybe I would have snapped and like that ripple
00:45:00 --> 00:45:04 effect, I would have just released my anger,
00:45:05 --> 00:45:07 my tension, my frustration on somebody else.
00:45:07 --> 00:45:10 But because of that, it just alleviated all of
00:45:10 --> 00:45:14 that inner animosity and just calmed the storm.
00:45:15 --> 00:45:18 Yeah, that's a wonderful example. But then from
00:45:18 --> 00:45:23 the other side. where someone does something
00:45:23 --> 00:45:26 nice to you and it changes your whole perspective.
00:45:27 --> 00:45:29 That's the reason why we should do that to others.
00:45:30 --> 00:45:33 We should go into the street and smile at people,
00:45:33 --> 00:45:37 be nice to people, say some nice words. Because
00:45:37 --> 00:45:42 it has an effect. It does. That was a big part
00:45:42 --> 00:45:44 of why I reached out to you from the beginning
00:45:44 --> 00:45:47 was because like we spoke before, we started
00:45:47 --> 00:45:50 recording with just all of the chaos and the
00:45:50 --> 00:45:52 turmoil that's happening in real time around
00:45:52 --> 00:45:54 us. And so this is a message that I think can,
00:45:55 --> 00:45:57 if people were to embrace it, to be open about
00:45:57 --> 00:46:01 it and to just to entertain it a bit, that could
00:46:01 --> 00:46:05 maybe knock down a lot of barriers and help us
00:46:05 --> 00:46:08 just find that common ground that we are, like
00:46:08 --> 00:46:11 you said, the interconnectedness. Also, I don't
00:46:11 --> 00:46:13 know how you feel about this, and I don't wanna
00:46:13 --> 00:46:16 maybe sway too far away from what your research
00:46:16 --> 00:46:19 and studies are, but the interconnectedness.
00:46:19 --> 00:46:22 You hear also people speak about this when they
00:46:22 --> 00:46:28 do have these, excuse me, these psychedelic experiences.
00:46:29 --> 00:46:31 When they're now, like there's some where you
00:46:31 --> 00:46:35 have, they have it in a safe environment, they
00:46:35 --> 00:46:38 have it in, there's a container set, and so they
00:46:38 --> 00:46:43 have their, their ceremony and they're off into
00:46:43 --> 00:46:47 the ether. But you also you also hear the these
00:46:47 --> 00:46:51 accounts and these stories of people being connected
00:46:51 --> 00:46:54 to the all universal mind or the universal energy
00:46:54 --> 00:46:58 in this oneness. And also I've heard accounts
00:46:58 --> 00:47:01 of people saying something similar to where they
00:47:01 --> 00:47:06 felt what it was to hurt. They felt the hurt
00:47:06 --> 00:47:09 of somebody else that they have heard. So pretty
00:47:09 --> 00:47:13 much as if they were that person. And this, it
00:47:13 --> 00:47:15 reminds me of it. And I don't know how you feel
00:47:15 --> 00:47:18 about that, or if that is something that you
00:47:18 --> 00:47:21 ever looked into at one point. You're referring
00:47:21 --> 00:47:26 to DMT probably. DMT, yeah. And also Ayahuasca.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:30 Ayahuasca. Yeah. You know, it's not part of my
00:47:30 --> 00:47:37 study, but I think... is that these things that
00:47:37 --> 00:47:40 I mentioned to you before the theoretical observation,
00:47:41 --> 00:47:44 so the verifiable out -of -body experiences where
00:47:44 --> 00:47:49 people see what the nurses and the doctors do,
00:47:49 --> 00:47:52 I'm not sure that that is, you need something
00:47:52 --> 00:47:55 like that to confirm that stuff with ayahuasca
00:47:55 --> 00:48:00 and DMT works the same way as an NDE. And I'm
00:48:00 --> 00:48:06 not aware of any study of that. But maybe ayahuasca
00:48:06 --> 00:48:12 or DMT does give you partial experiences like
00:48:12 --> 00:48:18 NDEs or aspects of NDEs, but it maybe may not
00:48:18 --> 00:48:21 give you the whole experience with outer body
00:48:21 --> 00:48:26 feeling and the feeling of light and seeing deceased
00:48:26 --> 00:48:28 relatives and having meaningful conversations
00:48:28 --> 00:48:33 with them. and seeing your life review and stuff
00:48:33 --> 00:48:36 like that. So the whole charade which you have
00:48:36 --> 00:48:41 with an NDE, I'm not sure that I've ever heard
00:48:41 --> 00:48:43 a story where people said something like that
00:48:43 --> 00:48:48 with Ayahuasca or DMT. But I think it needs more
00:48:48 --> 00:48:52 study to rule out or rule in that this is the
00:48:52 --> 00:48:57 same start. Definitely. So with all of the research,
00:48:58 --> 00:49:00 the books that you've written, the most recent
00:49:00 --> 00:49:03 book in all of the accounts and testimonies,
00:49:03 --> 00:49:08 just if I can get your personal take on the afterlife.
00:49:09 --> 00:49:13 Yeah. Well, in my book, Impressions of Near Death
00:49:13 --> 00:49:17 Experiences, the things that stood out for me
00:49:17 --> 00:49:21 the most were, well, unconditional love. That
00:49:21 --> 00:49:23 is something that is being said over and over
00:49:23 --> 00:49:27 again. I knew that already before I started out
00:49:27 --> 00:49:30 with this book, Impressions of Near -Death Experiences.
00:49:31 --> 00:49:34 But the other thing was that I really understood
00:49:34 --> 00:49:37 that we are so closely connected with each other,
00:49:37 --> 00:49:40 but that it goes even further than that. That
00:49:40 --> 00:49:44 we are, in fact, one. We are all one. There's
00:49:44 --> 00:49:48 only one source. Or that you could even say that
00:49:48 --> 00:49:53 we are God, or that God is us. And what I did
00:49:53 --> 00:49:57 is to take that into extremes. Just think about
00:49:57 --> 00:50:01 it. There's only one source. Suppose there's
00:50:01 --> 00:50:06 one source, and from it are little drops, and
00:50:06 --> 00:50:09 they are the people. There's eight billion people,
00:50:09 --> 00:50:12 eight billion little drops coming from the source,
00:50:12 --> 00:50:15 and there's also animals. And we interact with
00:50:15 --> 00:50:20 each other as if we are two drops separate so
00:50:20 --> 00:50:24 what I do in my life you will not feel or the
00:50:24 --> 00:50:28 other way around or if I hurt you I will not
00:50:28 --> 00:50:31 feel it because we are different drops we're
00:50:31 --> 00:50:35 two different aspects or little things from the
00:50:35 --> 00:50:40 source but once we die and we come back again
00:50:40 --> 00:50:43 and we reunite into the source all the information
00:50:43 --> 00:50:46 is there that's what I said with the live review
00:50:47 --> 00:50:51 I will feel what I did to you as if I am you,
00:50:51 --> 00:50:54 because we are the same source. We're the same
00:50:54 --> 00:50:58 substance. We'll reunite again with the substance,
00:50:58 --> 00:51:01 with the source, and then we will know. We will
00:51:01 --> 00:51:06 know exactly what happens in your life. And it
00:51:06 --> 00:51:09 seems like it's very interesting to have all
00:51:09 --> 00:51:12 these lives. That's what I said with what the
00:51:12 --> 00:51:15 little girl came up with. Just experience life.
00:51:15 --> 00:51:20 That's the nice thing. Just be. Experience life.
00:51:21 --> 00:51:25 Also the nasty things or the painful things.
00:51:25 --> 00:51:28 I know you have so many people in your program
00:51:28 --> 00:51:33 with struggles or with challenges, but they are
00:51:33 --> 00:51:37 important too. Of course, it's nicer to get out
00:51:37 --> 00:51:40 of the challenges and out of the struggles, but
00:51:40 --> 00:51:44 always realize that there is unconditional love
00:51:44 --> 00:51:47 for everyone, also for all the people that have
00:51:47 --> 00:51:50 challenges or struggles. It doesn't matter. We're
00:51:50 --> 00:51:54 all the same, the same source, the same substance.
00:51:54 --> 00:51:59 That's something now, like I... I mentioned earlier,
00:51:59 --> 00:52:03 I had my own encounters with religion and my
00:52:03 --> 00:52:05 thoughts of death and my fears of death. But
00:52:05 --> 00:52:10 as I've gotten older and I've just, I'm still
00:52:10 --> 00:52:13 a work in progress. We are all a work in progress.
00:52:14 --> 00:52:19 Yeah, tell me about it. So this is especially
00:52:19 --> 00:52:22 what you mentioned about your own personal take
00:52:22 --> 00:52:26 after the research and the studies and the books
00:52:26 --> 00:52:30 that you've written. and the accounts and everybody
00:52:30 --> 00:52:33 that you have spoken with regarding near -death
00:52:33 --> 00:52:37 experiences and that this resonates more with
00:52:37 --> 00:52:41 me. This is, it's like a blossoming inside of
00:52:41 --> 00:52:43 me where this is something that I'm feeling more
00:52:43 --> 00:52:46 comfortable with and it's almost like when you
00:52:46 --> 00:52:50 settle into a truth. And so it was a long time
00:52:50 --> 00:52:53 coming and this was a big reason why I was just
00:52:53 --> 00:52:57 interested to hear your take on it and the studies
00:52:57 --> 00:53:01 and especially the fact that you have... followed
00:53:01 --> 00:53:05 up eight years later and the accounts have remained
00:53:05 --> 00:53:08 the same. Even the words have remained the same
00:53:08 --> 00:53:14 and they have lasted, the impact has lasted for
00:53:14 --> 00:53:17 so long where it changed their perspective, the
00:53:17 --> 00:53:20 way that they interacted with life and the world
00:53:20 --> 00:53:22 around them and the people around them. And so
00:53:22 --> 00:53:24 that's a beautiful thing and that's a beautiful
00:53:24 --> 00:53:29 message also is just the four ingredients to
00:53:29 --> 00:53:32 love, to be, to be and to experience. Well, I
00:53:32 --> 00:53:36 mean, it's so simple, but my goodness, wouldn't
00:53:36 --> 00:53:39 that make a world of a difference if everybody
00:53:39 --> 00:53:41 would have put that into practice? Yeah, and
00:53:41 --> 00:53:45 just that everyone realizes that no one is that
00:53:45 --> 00:53:48 we should not look down on anyone, because we
00:53:48 --> 00:53:52 all come from somewhere. There's always a reason
00:53:52 --> 00:53:55 why we do the things that we do. And just one
00:53:55 --> 00:53:58 correction, I didn't do this study about the
00:53:58 --> 00:54:00 eight years later myself, it was done in the
00:54:00 --> 00:54:03 Netherlands by some by an old group. But that's
00:54:03 --> 00:54:07 a minor detail. But it's the other thing is also
00:54:07 --> 00:54:12 that it's that in the ears would love to go back
00:54:12 --> 00:54:15 to the other side again. They have some kind
00:54:15 --> 00:54:19 of homesickness to the other side, but they are
00:54:19 --> 00:54:23 not looking for death because they realize that
00:54:23 --> 00:54:26 even though it's difficult to come back again
00:54:26 --> 00:54:30 in this body because our bodies are so confining,
00:54:30 --> 00:54:34 it is still important that we are here. Everyone
00:54:34 --> 00:54:37 is important. With your struggles, without your
00:54:37 --> 00:54:40 struggles, it doesn't matter. We are important
00:54:40 --> 00:54:44 to be here and to have that place on earth or
00:54:44 --> 00:54:48 in the society that we have. The importance,
00:54:48 --> 00:54:51 the self -worth, I think that's something also
00:54:51 --> 00:54:54 that a lot of people are struggling with and
00:54:54 --> 00:54:57 especially with the results of social media where
00:54:57 --> 00:54:59 we can compare our lives with everybody else
00:54:59 --> 00:55:02 and you can feel as if you're in lack and look
00:55:02 --> 00:55:04 at what they're doing, look what I have and so
00:55:04 --> 00:55:06 there's always a... You have to stop doing that
00:55:06 --> 00:55:10 right away. So your impressions of near -death
00:55:10 --> 00:55:14 experiences, this is the... the most recent book
00:55:14 --> 00:55:16 that you published, correct? Yeah, that's the
00:55:16 --> 00:55:20 recent book. Yeah. And this is your website,
00:55:21 --> 00:55:23 because you do have a few websites. I've seen
00:55:23 --> 00:55:25 that you have a couple of websites with, I guess,
00:55:25 --> 00:55:28 some of the works or the studies or things that
00:55:28 --> 00:55:32 you're involved with and also how people can...
00:55:32 --> 00:55:34 because you have a handful of books, not just
00:55:34 --> 00:55:37 impressions of near -death experience. Yeah,
00:55:37 --> 00:55:40 that's true. I had a book where I compared religions
00:55:40 --> 00:55:43 with near -death experiences. That was interesting
00:55:43 --> 00:55:46 to do, too. Okay. Yeah, people can find me on
00:55:46 --> 00:55:54 my website. That's www .bobkopas .com. And they
00:55:54 --> 00:55:57 can always ask questions there because I will...
00:55:57 --> 00:56:01 I answer always. Yeah, perfect. I have your the
00:56:01 --> 00:56:04 information and all of that I'm going to include
00:56:04 --> 00:56:07 in the show notes. So anybody that's interested,
00:56:07 --> 00:56:09 my wife, she was really she said, Oh, this is
00:56:09 --> 00:56:12 going to be a goon because she's also fascinated
00:56:12 --> 00:56:14 with the near -death experiences. And this is
00:56:14 --> 00:56:18 just this just the spirituality. aspect of life
00:56:18 --> 00:56:21 because like we are, we're spiritual beings having
00:56:21 --> 00:56:24 a human experience. Interesting. When a friend
00:56:24 --> 00:56:26 of mine asked me, it was a very interesting question.
00:56:26 --> 00:56:30 She said, why are you so preoccupied with death?
00:56:31 --> 00:56:34 And then I had to think about that. And then
00:56:34 --> 00:56:37 the answer that I came up with is actually the
00:56:37 --> 00:56:42 right thing, is that with near -death experiences,
00:56:42 --> 00:56:46 with understanding them, it's easier or nicer
00:56:46 --> 00:56:52 to live. It makes it somehow easier to go about
00:56:52 --> 00:56:55 your life because you understand that the struggles
00:56:55 --> 00:56:58 are not there to punish you or to give you a
00:56:58 --> 00:57:03 nasty life. They are there as stepping stones
00:57:03 --> 00:57:08 on the way to a higher kind of love. It's for
00:57:08 --> 00:57:12 nothing that we have all these experiences to
00:57:12 --> 00:57:15 do in life. You know, if you really look into
00:57:15 --> 00:57:20 MDE's, you will appreciate life better. You will
00:57:20 --> 00:57:24 become like an MDE 'er. You will not be a saint,
00:57:24 --> 00:57:28 but you will appreciate life as it is. That's
00:57:28 --> 00:57:30 interesting, you know, because that does beg
00:57:30 --> 00:57:36 to wonder somebody who is studying death. And
00:57:36 --> 00:57:39 some would think that with that studies that
00:57:39 --> 00:57:42 is going to maybe bring a pessimistic or nihilistic
00:57:42 --> 00:57:46 attitude in the way of looking at life. On the
00:57:46 --> 00:57:50 contrary, it sounds and this is it seems like
00:57:50 --> 00:57:53 it is it's brought peace to you. Absolutely.
00:57:53 --> 00:57:57 The one ingredient, the main ingredient is love.
00:57:57 --> 00:58:00 And so. This is a wonderful message. But yeah,
00:58:00 --> 00:58:02 that's interesting to hear. And that reminds
00:58:02 --> 00:58:05 me of it. I believe it was Marcus Aurelius in
00:58:05 --> 00:58:08 his meditations and he spoke of stoicism, but
00:58:08 --> 00:58:12 he also in one of his lines, he mentions something
00:58:12 --> 00:58:18 about the idea of fixating yourself on death
00:58:18 --> 00:58:23 and to imagine it and to to experience it in
00:58:23 --> 00:58:26 your mind and in your imagination. And from that,
00:58:26 --> 00:58:29 the fruits will be gratitude and appreciation
00:58:29 --> 00:58:31 for life, for the here and now and the present
00:58:31 --> 00:58:34 moment. So then that reminds me of what you said
00:58:34 --> 00:58:37 that with the studies of near death experiences,
00:58:37 --> 00:58:41 this will bring you a new perspective on life
00:58:41 --> 00:58:44 and the gratitude and appreciation for the here
00:58:44 --> 00:58:48 and now. Exactly. I couldn't say it better. That's
00:58:48 --> 00:58:52 how it is. Bob, I really, really appreciate your
00:58:52 --> 00:58:55 time. We went for about an hour and I felt like
00:58:55 --> 00:58:59 you had a lot of great information in the main
00:58:59 --> 00:59:02 message and the core components and the ingredients
00:59:02 --> 00:59:05 in your book. the impressions of near -death
00:59:05 --> 00:59:08 experiences, people, anybody listening, if they're
00:59:08 --> 00:59:10 interested, they could find links in the show
00:59:10 --> 00:59:13 notes. But if you have any any final words or
00:59:13 --> 00:59:16 anything that you you'd like to leave off with,
00:59:16 --> 00:59:18 feel free, my friend. I said something about
00:59:18 --> 00:59:23 the the woman who had her life review twice where
00:59:23 --> 00:59:26 she discovered that the small things are important.
00:59:26 --> 00:59:31 I would ask all your listeners just. tomorrow,
00:59:31 --> 00:59:35 try to do that three times in a day. I try to
00:59:35 --> 00:59:38 do that every day three times, smile at someone
00:59:38 --> 00:59:41 that I don't know. And it gives you wonderful
00:59:41 --> 00:59:46 reactions. Just try. You will enjoy it and it
00:59:46 --> 00:59:49 will have a ripple effect, a nice ripple effect.
00:59:49 --> 00:59:52 And that's something that I learned from ND years.
00:59:53 --> 00:59:57 Okay, let's do it. Let's do it. Smile at three
00:59:57 --> 01:00:01 strangers. And even taking it a step further,
01:00:01 --> 01:00:05 just wish them a nice day or so. Yeah, or say
01:00:05 --> 01:00:09 something nice. The littlest things can really
01:00:09 --> 01:00:13 mean the world to somebody. Exactly. Just as
01:00:13 --> 01:00:16 you said in your example, in your life. Yes,
01:00:17 --> 01:00:20 exactly. Bob, thank you again. Once again, thank
01:00:20 --> 01:00:22 you so much for your time. Richard, thank you
01:00:22 --> 01:00:25 for having me on your show. Thank you very much.
01:00:25 --> 01:00:28 I hope you all enjoyed this conversation today
01:00:28 --> 01:00:31 and a big thank you again to Bob for taking time
01:00:31 --> 01:00:34 out of his day to share some of his studies and
01:00:34 --> 01:00:38 his research and even some of his own personal
01:00:38 --> 01:00:40 thoughts about the afterlife. And let's not forget
01:00:40 --> 01:00:45 those two big messages from the ND years that
01:00:45 --> 01:00:48 he has took an account in. written with quotations
01:00:48 --> 01:00:51 in his book, one of them being the unconditional
01:00:51 --> 01:00:54 love and the second one that we are all thoroughly
01:00:54 --> 01:00:58 interconnected with each other, the animals with
01:00:58 --> 01:01:01 nature, and that is this love and this energy
01:01:01 --> 01:01:05 that is binding. And in essence, when I stick
01:01:05 --> 01:01:08 my arm out, or even with the tongue harms somebody
01:01:08 --> 01:01:12 and hurt somebody, I'm ultimately hurting myself.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:15 so if there's anybody listening who wants to
01:01:15 --> 01:01:19 know more about Bob or get your hand on any one
01:01:19 --> 01:01:22 of his books you'll find all of his information
01:01:22 --> 01:01:25 in the show notes and one more thing before we
01:01:25 --> 01:01:28 wrap it up I'd like to thank all of you listening
01:01:28 --> 01:01:31 every one of you listening that has invited us
01:01:31 --> 01:01:36 into your homes into your your airwaves into
01:01:36 --> 01:01:39 your daily routine into your your commute to
01:01:39 --> 01:01:42 and from work however it was but thank you for
01:01:42 --> 01:01:45 spending and sharing some of your day with us
01:01:45 --> 01:01:48 hope you all have a great rest of the week you
01:01:48 --> 01:01:52 know how to reach out to us you know how to contact
01:01:52 --> 01:01:55 us we're gonna catch up and we're gonna do this
01:01:55 --> 01:01:59 again real soon you be safe out there you be
01:01:59 --> 01:02:04 sane be the change that you wish to see And let's
01:02:04 --> 01:02:07 go ahead and be kind to a stranger. We never
01:02:07 --> 01:02:10 know what somebody's going through and sometimes
01:02:10 --> 01:02:14 the smallest of things can make that rippling
01:02:14 --> 01:02:19 effect that is going to change somebody's world
01:02:19 --> 01:02:23 for the better. Before I close shop, I'd like
01:02:23 --> 01:02:26 to remind you that if you would like to be a
01:02:26 --> 01:02:31 part of this show and share your story. or maybe
01:02:31 --> 01:02:33 even a story of someone in your life that has
01:02:33 --> 01:02:37 impacted you in a positive way, you could always
01:02:37 --> 01:02:42 reach out to us via email. We'd be happy to connect
01:02:42 --> 01:03:02 until next time and very soon. Peace. To know
01:03:02 --> 01:03:09 I'm on the right road Ain't seen no sign since
01:03:09 --> 01:03:11 Jericho