Religious Trauma, An Ex Mormon Breaking Free || Crystal

[00:00:32] Breaking Free with episode number 43. Welcome back to the show. This is Giants Amongst Us, where we share in the unique human

[00:01:07] experience and where you're going to hear real stories that are told by real people, people just like yourself. I hope you guys are in good spirits. If this is your first time tuning into the show, well, welcome. Kick your feet up. Please do stay a while. What we do here is we engage in story and connections about the resilient human spirit, how one was able to transcend struggles, to break barriers of

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[00:02:56] things on our side. It'll help us improve the show and create an overall valuable and meaningful experience on our end. And to help these stories fall on the ears of new listeners. So with all that out of the way, let's get into it. Leaving the Mormon faith, divorcing at 18 years old and dealing with addiction and mental health issues. Today, Crystal joins us and she's got a story to tell.

[00:03:27] So I consider myself, I grew up in Houston and I learned really quickly not to tell people I was Mormon. So that's three hours Sunday church, one hour Wednesday or two hours on Wednesday, and then five hours before school. It's a lot of church. I really struggled between the dysfunction of the family

[00:03:53] as an alcoholic family and the dysfunction as religious trauma. In the last few years, I'm seeing how it's really the same. It's the same dysfunction. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, this is Crystal and her story. Welcome back to the show. This is Giants Amongst Us, where we share in the unique human experience. And I'd like to introduce

[00:04:20] my guest for today. Crystal is here. She's joining us and she has a bit of story to talk and some of her journey to share with us. So first of all, I'd just like to welcome you to the show. Thank you for taking time out of your day. You could have been doing anything. You could have been anywhere, but here we are having a sit down, sharing a conversation. So thank you. How are you doing?

[00:04:47] I'm doing really good. Thank you for having me on. Yeah. Wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Yes. We enjoyed a nice little conversation beforehand. And so, yeah, I'm curious to hear a bit more of your story. So for starters, can you share some of your background and where you come from and just a bit of how it was for you growing up?

[00:05:08] Sure. I'll do some childhood highlights. I was born the youngest out of six children to a Mormon family. We lived in New Orleans and both of my parents were raised in Idaho. So my dad grew up and he was the

[00:05:30] youngest out of six kids and grew up in a small town, Idaho. And then my mom grew up, they're called Jack Mormons. So they're Mormons that aren't Mormon, don't go to church and they drink. And so my mom and dad married in Idaho, and then my dad was in the military. So they went all over the world and

[00:05:53] they end up in New Orleans. I'm the youngest out of six. My two older sisters are teenagers and they're not Mormon. They are kind of behaving, they're out partying, everything that you would expect to do in New Orleans. They were doing, right? So I went from New Orleans to, we moved up to Idaho in

[00:06:18] elementary school. My parents separated, even though to this day, they deny it was a separation because, you know, Mormons get married in the temple. It's a forever marriage. So it's just like keeping this facade that everything was okay. So we moved up to Idaho because a year before that, when we took a

[00:06:42] family trip from New Orleans to Idaho, my parents left my two oldest sisters to be raised by relatives. So my oldest sister went to my grandma, my mom's mom, and my sister went to my dad's mom. And they were 16 and 14. So I learned really early that if you're not Mormon, then you're out of the

[00:07:10] family. If you don't follow the rules, you know, this is conditional love. You're not part of the family. We're going to leave you 1500 miles away. So my parents were having a lot of conflict right. And I'm young. I was the youngest. I don't, I don't really remember what was going on. My older sisters would tell me that my dad would walk in the door and you know, there's three kids in diapers.

[00:07:35] It stinks. I think I was, well, I was born in 79. So I think I was the last one that had a disposable diapers. So it was just, it was gross. It was six kids in a, in a stinky home. Right. And my dad would open the door and just shut it and go back to work. Right. And then my mom is stuck dealing with all these kids. So my mom leaves him. We moved to Idaho a year later, we moved

[00:08:03] back to New Orleans and we never talk about the issues. My parents never argued in front of us. I didn't know what healthy arguments were. Right. So then we moved to Texas. I grew up, so I consider myself, I grew up in Houston and I learned really quickly not to tell people I was

[00:08:25] Mormon. So there's a huge Baptist community in Texas, which they think Mormons are a cult. And I was like, no my gosh, we're not a cult. They're like, you're not Christian. I was like, oh no, the church of Jesus Christ. Of course we're Christian. Yes. It has Jesus Christ in the name. So I was just really confused. I would go to school and they would say I'm in a cult or,

[00:08:51] you know, my parents won't let me come over to your house because you're Mormon. You can come over to our house or you can come to church with us, but I can't go to church with you. So I had that aspect of it. And then my family, we would get up early in the morning, do scripture study, have family prayer. And then we'd also do that at nighttime too. So it's just church on Sundays is three hours.

[00:09:20] So it's just, it's a lot of church. Right. And then I get into high school and that's, it's seminary. So if you live in Idaho and Utah, you, you do church study, like in your regular classes, but when you live in Texas, it's beforehand. So I would get up and go to church at 6 AM and then, you know, go to high school. That's when I started. That was every day? Yeah. Every day.

[00:09:50] So I would meet with the Mormon friends and then Wednesdays you have youth group and then Sundays. So that's three hours, Sunday church, one hour, Wednesday or two hours on Wednesday, and then five hours before school. It's a lot of church. I've hit my quota of attending church. So you have four years of high school, right? So it's the Book of Mormon one year,

[00:10:15] the old Testament, the new Testament. You would just go through the scriptures, a scripture study. And that's when I, like I started smoking when I was a freshman in high school. My oldest sister was a senior. I was a freshman and we would skip seminary and go to the McDonald's and eat. It didn't work out because my junior year, I became, or was it my sophomore year? They made me seminary

[00:10:43] president and it was at my house. So all the kids would show up at the house and we had seminary there. And then, um, so during this time I, I was looking at girls and, and guys and like figuring out my sexuality and my parents like freaked out. They're like, Oh my God, Crystal's gay. And so in the Mormon

[00:11:08] church, you don't date until you're 16. But because my parents were so worried about me being gay that they allowed me to date at 14. So, so I, yeah, I started dating a guy and then we, you know, I started having sex. And then my junior year, I met this guy and my parents found out we were having

[00:11:36] sex. My mom came out of the kitchen, held up a calendar and said, pick a date. And we were going to get married that day. So we got married the day before Thanksgiving, my senior year of high school. Wow.

[00:11:55] Wow. Yeah. And so it was crazy. And I think right before that, like I was doing like drinking and, but nothing too bad. Uh, I think I was smoking a little pot, no drugs at the time, but my parents, like I had shamed them and they were going to, they were going to correct it. So I graduated high

[00:12:21] school. Married. And then I was miserable. I had a really bad depression. Yeah. I don't know how much I need to go into my childhood about that, but depression, medication. My brother was in rehab for years. It was, um, visiting him in jail or, or going to treatment centers to, to do family therapy.

[00:12:46] Uh, CPS got called out to the school one time because my brother was really violent and he, he used to like throw knives from the kitchen at me and my sister. CPS was called because he kicked me in the face one time. And we had talked about it at the treatment center. And I was so mad. I was like, I, I can't believe they told us I hate CPS. And now looking at it as an adult healed. I'm like,

[00:13:15] absolutely. They should have done that. So it was just, it's a lot of like, I learned to be a victim. I learned to be codependent. I really struggled between, um, the dysfunction of the family as an alcoholic family and the dysfunction as religious trauma. And the last few years I'm seeing how it's

[00:13:41] really the same. It's the same dysfunction. So if you, I don't know if you've done any, um, codependent therapy work, but it talks about family members. What is her name? Oh my gosh. It's I'm drawing a blank, but she talks about family members. When you're raising the dysfunction, you learn to don't talk, don't trust, don't feel Claudia Black. That's her name. And she,

[00:14:08] she wrote a book. It won't, it'll never happen to me. Um, I'm getting that wrong, but it's Claudia Black. And that's, that's what being a Mormon is. That's what being in an abusive home is like, you know, shut down your feelings. Definitely don't tell anybody what's going on and don't even talk to the family about it. We're not going to process what's happening. And we're just going

[00:14:35] to kind of shove it on the rug. My parents and I had become so codependent and so focused on my brother who was the addict that we went out to dinner and we're like, okay, we're not going to talk about him. And we sat there in silence because we had nothing else to talk about. Right. Cause I was

[00:15:01] so focused on him. So that was, that was my probably like sophomore, so sophomore year and then junior year. And I, you know, I liked the attention and I got from guys and I liked, you know, partying. So when my parents found out we got married, it was miserable. And I, I talk about this in my, in my memoir because now like we're all writing it. It's hilarious. Like I do a whole chapter on the

[00:15:28] wedding. It's just ridiculous. Like I was just 17, right? That's crazy. I don't know if I'm, I'm trying to go back. Cause we're about the same age. I was born in eighties. So I don't think I can put my finger on anybody that I knew when I was in high school that was married. Yeah. You might be the first. Yeah. I know. I look at it now. I'm just like,

[00:15:53] that was just insane. Did you see, cause you, you grew up, you grew up in it. And so you were going, you had your, your separate studies before, before school, when you were in high school, that the scripture studies and all that, did you see like amongst your peers, people that were also in the Mormon church that were your age? Did you see a lot of that chaotic lifestyle that was going out behind the scenes, but they were still, you know, either involved in the church because family

[00:16:21] for one, or that was just the, uh, the, the way that they were brought up. This was the, you know, some people are just brought up a certain way and they don't steer from it. They're, they're, they're trained and taught not to question it. And this is the way it is. And this is the way it's going to be. Not to question. You do not question the church. You do not question the bishop. There's so much pressure.

[00:16:46] Cause ultimately you're questioning God. If you question the bishop or someone in place, this is God's vessel. You don't question that. And that is putting your salvation in jeopardy. Yes. So. Was it kind of common for you to see, uh, other, you know, teenagers that were also involved with the Mormon church was the common to see them doing things on the side and.

[00:17:08] Um, yeah, that, that double life. It is miserable, miserable. I remember so many times cause I would have my Mormon jewelry. Um, like you have a CTR ring. It says, choose the right, you know, you get when you're 18 and then, or eight years old when you get baptized in church, make sure you're making the right decisions and young women to get pendants. And I used to go out with my boyfriend

[00:17:35] and just take my jewelry off and mess around and then put it back on and go into the house and act like, Oh, I'm just a good little Mormon girl. It's exhausting. It is so exhausting. Have you ever seen footloose? Yeah, I have. That's what it reminds me of. Manchin is the devil. Everything is the devil. Yeah. And it's so easy. That's the way. And, but imagine, I wonder if you were dealing with this too,

[00:17:58] did you also have a heavy fear instilled in you that I'm doing this because this is what scripture says, this is what I'm taught to do. And you're, you're still, you're, of course you're a growing teenager and you have, uh, you know, there's, there's wants of the flesh that you sometimes go ahead and you partake of the forbidden fruit. But did you also have that, that fear? Like, I don't know, do Mormons believe in the hell or some kind of eternal damnation for those that

[00:18:26] aren't following scripture or following the church? It's called outer darkness, but it's hell, but they just call it outer darkness. So Mormons believe in three types of heaven. So the telestial kingdom, the terrestrial and the celestial kingdom. So the top level of heaven, the only way you can get into it is if you're

[00:18:52] married in the temple to a man and your man, when he's up in heaven, he will call your name so you can join him. So basically if you get divorced, if you get a temple divorce and you never remarry, you're not going to go to heaven in the Mormon church. But the rules have changed from, cause I went to church in the nineties and now like everything's kind of switched.

[00:19:19] The garments that they wore now, they're sleeveless garments. I'm like, when did keep changing the doctrine to make it more acceptable by the new generation? Right. Gen Z is just not trying to change with the times. Right. Right. And where it's like women are able to, Oh no, no, we really encourage women to go out and work. No, you don't. I talk about this in my book that this was my, my adolescence

[00:19:48] and trying to figure this out. So I was sitting in church with some of my friends and you know, back then those wraparound skirts. Yeah. Well, it had opened up and so my legs were exposed. And so her dad just like stared at me while I was like fixing it. I was like, Oh my God, that's so weird. My dad would never do that. So I got the creeps from him and he was teaching

[00:20:17] some Sunday school class. And I was like, I'm not going to it. And my mom's like, well, come, come to class with me. So I go to class with her and a woman stands up and says, I'm not talking about, uh, these women that go out because they're, their husbands don't make enough money, but women that go out and work because they don't want to be home with their kids. Like

[00:20:41] they're ruining the families. So these are the messages I'm getting and I just don't feel safe and don't talk about it and don't process. That does a lot just to you psychologically too, especially when you know, you're, you're taught to, you have to stay your place. You have to live, you have a certain role. You can't go outside that role. And, um, they always use this book or this authority over you saying you have this to pay. You know, that's another thing that,

[00:21:11] like I was asking you about the fear because some people there, you know, they do certain things. They think that there needs to be certain consequences for whatever it is that you're doing to try to keep people in line. And then now when you put, uh, the consequences of not just physical harm or repercussions, but then now the afterlife also. So we have this extra, um, we have like a,

[00:21:35] an ace in the hole. And so that can really damage somebody where you're, you always feel like even if you're getting away with it here, but my goodness, I have hell to pay afterwards. If this is something that you're, you're conditioned to believe and it's hard to stray away from that. So I don't know how, what that was doing to you psychologically with, as you were growing up and I'm still just trying to find out, um, you know, you're maturing and growing as a person,

[00:22:05] you're still a teenager. Oh yeah. I was a hot mess. I didn't even realize how, how much of a hot mess I was. I'm just now realizing how bad it was. Processing it all, huh? Years later. Yes. Yes. With a healed lens. I'm like, wow. So a couple of things came up, what you were just

[00:22:27] talking about is, is the guilt. It's a lot more psychological abuse, right? Emotional abuse. So I know there's a lot of people that are sexually abused in the church. That's not my story. I've had family members abused. That didn't happen to me and they've taken steps to ensure that doesn't happen

[00:22:52] by making sure that there's always like two people around. Um, there's a male and a female on classes together. So kind of like what the Catholic church has done and take steps up. They got rid of the boy scouts, right? Because of sexual assault. So it's more so of the guilt of you're not going to go to the celestial kingdom. You're not going to be in heaven. And then they add the guilt of, well,

[00:23:21] when you're not righteous, then you can't spread the word to other people that need it. So they're not going to get their salvation because of you. Oh, wow. That's a, that's a real good way to keep people in line. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying that I'm saying good, but that's terrible. That's, that's a, that's demented. No, I know. Yeah. But just the fact that how you're able to,

[00:23:47] you know, play these cards against somebody psychologically, because it really is too, it's psychological warfare. That's what's going on. I mean, they're traumatizing the hell out of you. Yeah. Abuse. There you go. This is abuse. Yeah. Which it didn't even occur to me. I didn't even know what religious abuse was. I didn't even know what religious trauma was. Marlene Winwall

[00:24:11] coined the term religious trauma syndrome, right? So it's, it's PTSD, but I'm so worried of taking the victim stance that I don't like, well, no, PTSD is for rape victims and war. And no, this, this is this level of psychological abuse. Yeah. I definitely show signs of PTSD. Absolutely.

[00:24:37] Another thing that the Mormon church does is these phobias of, if you leave the church, you will become a drug addict and alcoholic, you will hate your life. You'll kill yourself. You'll lose your friends. You'll lose your family. You won't be happy. You'll be depressed. You won't be successful in life. You won't have a good job. You won't have a lovely family. All these, well,

[00:25:03] you know what? I'm in recovery. I did do that. Alcoholic, used drugs, promiscuous, depression, anxiety, anxiety, and I got through it and I'm on the other side. Right. And that happened. It didn't happen because of it, but I went through these situations and I got through it and I see that the harm religion has done, this religion contributed to my psyche and my issues of being

[00:25:33] unworthy, man, taking the victim stance and feelings of unworthiness. Am I worthy enough? For love. Holy crap. That's what going into sober support programs really helps me. It showed me unconditional love. I do have issues with traditional sober support because it really, it's very Christian for me. It just doesn't resonate for me. So I do like the secular groups

[00:26:02] where it really just, it puts the control in your hands. I'm not handing it over to somebody. Let me go back. I like the 12 step programs because I had a choice on what God was. Right. So they're not telling me, it's a higher power. I can choose whatever higher power I want. Right. I didn't have this Mormon God telling me or this person telling me about the Mormon God. If I

[00:26:32] don't believe in this God and Joseph Smith, then I'm not going to get all the blessings. So that was a little tangent. No, no, no. I like that. You, you emphasize the fact that you're taking the control back in the way and you don't want to relinquish that control because a lot of religion, that's what

[00:26:56] it's ultimately doing to the, to the individual is that it's reminding him constantly, reminding her constantly that you're not in total control. You need to rely on whether it be whatever God they believe in or these practices or that one sitting in front of the pulpit. These are the ones that are, this is your ticket to salvation. And if you stray from it in any way, you're going to end up bad,

[00:27:24] you're going to end up in a bad place. And it really, when you were talking about how the Mormons preach the fact that if you leave the church, all of these things are going to happen. And it reminded me of also there are Christian denominations. And like I told you, I had a little stint, a brief stint with a church I was going to, and this is what they use in the Bible is saying that if you backslide, they call it a backslide or someone who leaves the church and they stray away from

[00:27:52] it and they stop attending and they stop practicing. And when you backslide that, they liken it to this story in the Bible of where this is like a swine returning back to his vomit and it's going to be 10 times worse or 15 times worse. So this was something that they also would make it a point to say, like if you stray from God, if you stray from the commandments, if you don't go to church,

[00:28:17] that you're going to end up seven or 10 times worse than you were before. You need this in your life. And this is something that came to mind when you, when you spoke on that, because I was like, wow, that sounds familiar. Yeah. Yeah. That's part of Steve Hassan, the bite model, right? That's what they do. That's how they, they, they do mind control. This is something and you know, it's, it's, it's hard for some to grasp

[00:28:46] that say never. Now you have, you can have two different people, someone who was brought up in a church, a religious household, and someone who was brought up with none of that. And so an adult that had none of that in their life to hear it, some of them would say, wow, this sounds like fantasy story. How can you even believe in something like that? But when you're brought up in a church where this is what you're reading, this is what you're seeing, this is what you're

[00:29:15] being taught. This is what you're talking about. I mean, this is the way that you program someone is you're just conditioning them and you're constantly bombarding them with messages and this is all they know. So anything outside of that is going to be abnormal. It's going to be foreign to them. So with you and having that instilled in you for so long, how, or what was it that finally

[00:29:41] clicked or, or set off inside of you to where you really started to question it all? Maybe you had those questions long ago, but you were just afraid to come out and just actually act on the conviction that you had. Like, you know, this is not for me. I don't agree with this and I don't like this. Yeah. Good question. So since I was a child, I knew, I just knew intuitively this was not for me.

[00:30:11] I knew that I was supposed to do something more than to get married and have children. I just knew it. So I actually want to read, I have my, my book of Mormon and the Mormons do the King James version and the book of Mormon, the Bible. And just to like intellectually debate people now,

[00:30:38] cause it's been like almost 30 years since I read it. Right. And at the same time I was like, I'm not, I'm not really into that either debating anymore. I, I know my truth, right? I know, I know I'm living my own spiritual way. So when writing this book, I was trying to find like the point when that really happened. And it was just kind of a gradual process of letting my parents know this

[00:31:06] isn't for me. Having the courage to tell them this is not for me having, I was going through my diaries and, and I went back and forth cause I do the geographics. Right. So I was like, Oh, life isn't good. I think I'll just move to a new state. Okay. Cause that would be better. Um, so I moved to Idaho like the third time and I went to church and I had written in my diary that

[00:31:35] I was like, Oh, I thought I was going to church, but no, I, this is all bullshit. I know organized religion is not for me. They're just trying to control it. It was just the inability to question was very challenging for me. And so the, the more self-esteem I got, the more I was able to question.

[00:31:59] Yeah. Even to this day, like being, being able to, as a 45 year old woman talking to my parents about how their church really negatively impacted me, really a mature conversation I had with that. My mom turned 80 last January, we went down to Austin and just had a great time, had a very

[00:32:25] open conversation about, about their church and how it affected me, my sexuality, my self-esteem. And they were, they were willing to listen, which I'm sure, uh, I'm sure the Mormon prophet has told them to love their children, no matter what they're emotionally immature. And this may ruffle some

[00:32:50] feathers too, but to go to a church and have someone tell me what to do, you know, how to say things, what I should do every day of the week, how many times I should pray, if I can have oral sex with my husband or not, that's emotionally immature. And that's not the life I want. I 100% agree. For one, I mean, a big red, red flag is not to question anything. And that can be for

[00:33:20] any kind of organization. And that could even go for the one that's sitting across and saying that he's, he's has your best interests in mind because he's affiliated with this party or that party, the left or the right. And this is what we say. This is what's best for the people. And how dare you question it? And that already is telling me, okay, I see, I see it a bit differently, but the

[00:33:49] ability to question or not question something right there should be a red flag for some people, because I think we as an individual have that innate right to, I mean, it's up to us. We, we, we grow, we, we develop, we mature. And if there's anything in a way to stunt that from us being the, the, the true potential that we're capable of being, then that that's a problem. And some people use

[00:34:16] religion and some people use a lot of different things to, like you said, stunt that to keep you in line. And ultimately just to, to pretty much control and dictate who you are, what you are, and what you're, what you're going to be in this life. I've really been exploring more of this balance of femininity and masculinity, right?

[00:34:42] I'm trying to find my voice without being too overbearing, right? So what you're saying about politics, absolutely. When Trump said, we're going to help, what did he say? We're going to help women if they like it or not. I can't remember. What did he, what some, something's, you know, he's always saying something, but I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Like not even, not even taking into account

[00:35:07] what other people, other people's opinions. So that's, that's challenging. And that's the Mormon church. Don't question. That's the, this is something that I'm learning too. I told you beforehand, because with the, when I spoke with a few Jehovah's witnesses and for the longest, I think a lot of people had, had the same misconception or you judge a book by its cover right away because they, even Mormons, when they'd come around, they look so clean, they're clean cut. They,

[00:35:34] they have the white t-shirt, they have the, the perfectly fitting blue khaki slacks on, whatever it is that they, they had the tie. And so they, they look very presentable. They look like good doing people. And a lot of them, you know, they're in there for the, they're, they're doing these things that they have a good heart and a good motive. Not to say that all religious people are bad, but a lot of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you hear from just the psychological abuse,

[00:36:03] the physical abuse, all the, the, the abuse that goes on in that people, because they're either so invested in it, they don't want to, they have this cognitive dissonance or they have, they, they spiritually bypass things. And so they look the other way or they don't see it and they don't want to believe it. And so that this carries on. And sometimes it's like, why do they allow this

[00:36:31] to continue or they don't speak on, speak up on it? It could be fear. It could be a lot of different things. But so a lot of people like myself included, when I would see Jehovah's Witnesses for Mormons, for me hearing about a lot of the, the things that go on behind the scenes now, it's just like, wow, this is crazy for me to hear about it. And with the development of the internet and how we have access to information now that you start hearing more about these stories. And it seems like a lot of

[00:36:58] now what they say, how they say that a lot of the things that are done in the dark is finally coming to light. Yeah. That's what 2025 is all about, right? No, no more, no more. So I feel so bad for these missionaries. They're 18, 19 years old, right? Like these kids are pressured. That's, is that mandatory?

[00:37:21] It's not mandatory. It is so highly pressured and they pressure women to only marry return missionaries, right? So if I want to get into heaven, I want to return missionary. Oh. So the man's like, okay, well, I got to go on a mission. Or if I don't go on a mission, then other people aren't going to get, Mormons don't really call it saved. Or maybe they do.

[00:37:48] They changed it all. They use crosses now. I don't know. Things are different, but they're just kids. And you know what? Give them 10 years and they're in the gay bar doing shots. The Amish do that. They let them go out in the world for a couple of years, let them experience it. And if they like it, they stay there. If not, they come back. Rum springa. Yeah. Is that what it's called?

[00:38:13] Yes. I think that's fantastic. That's amazing that they do that. You just said you recently had that mature conversation where you, you know, you were talking about even from a child through your adolescence and you had this intuitive feeling like this is not for me. I'm meant to do something else. I'm meant to live a different way. So when you had that feeling and you, you had this conviction inside of you, you pretty

[00:38:42] much kept it inside. You didn't voice it to your parents when you were younger as a growing up as a teenager in high school or even afterwards, a young adult. Yeah. I just, I don't think I talked to my parents. Yeah. I don't think I talked to my parents about it at all. I've been going through all, through all my diaries. It's so funny how our memory works, right? Because I'm reading some diaries and I was like, I don't remember this at all, but it sounds like some shit I would do.

[00:39:15] And it's my writing. I guess I did it, but I have, I don't remember any of it. Wow. Yeah. So I didn't, I didn't have the internet. Yeah. Remember there wasn't the internet, right? And I was, I graduated from university in Oregon without a cell phone. Yeah. I was 25. And I was like, and it was a prepaid. Boost mobile or something. Yeah, you're right. You had to pay. I paid for the minutes.

[00:39:47] So looking at it now, even, even right now, so this is, this goes back to the phobias, right? So these ingrained beliefs that if you listen to anti-Mormon religion, anti-Mormon literature, you're evil, something's wrong with you. If you question the church, if you believe this anti-literature, something's wrong with you. Instead of saying, Hey, you know what? I think

[00:40:14] Joseph Smith did have 30 wives. Had no idea. They don't raise, they didn't raise me with that. I had no idea he had 30 wives that some of them were teenage girls. I didn't know that he burnt down the printing press because they were doing anti-Mormon stuff. Even recently, like listening to the podcast on Mormon stories and, and they just kind of dissect, you know, everything that the doctrine.

[00:40:42] And so I feel so much relief for the Gen Z generation that they don't have to go through the same pain or as much as pain that I did without support. Yeah. Do you see that there's a big shift in the way people are viewing the religion? Like the, you know, there's a lot of people questioning it now and not afraid to speak up or just if they really feel like

[00:41:09] this is not for me, I'm not in line with what is being taught. I'm going to just separate myself from the church completely. The problem with that is your family's in the church. Your friends are in the church. So when you leave them, you don't have anybody. And that's why I hung out at bars. Those are my friends, not real friends, but at least I was able to talk to them or the, the other

[00:41:36] Mormon people I grew up with that weren't going to church, you know, we had beers together, but even that was like worried. Somebody's going to see you smoking a cigarette, you know, or like, Oh, you don't want to be Mormon because you just want to drink a smoke. That's what coach doing away too, right? Like any, any, whether it's a, whether they're using a Bible or their God of choice to hover over you, or if it's an organization organization or a belief or some kind of radical

[00:42:05] cause or idealism that they, they isolate you from everything else. So now you feel like this is all you have, this is all your support. And if you do leave, you're left with just you and you have to fend for yourself. And if you've been brought up this way and totally dependent on them, it's going

[00:42:26] to be a scary thing to face all alone. It's terrifying. It is so lonely. I remember trying to search out just find, Oh, maybe I should, I was like, maybe I should go to Scientology without knowing that it was a cult. You go from one extreme to the other. My sister did that. Yeah. So, which is really, which is really common to, um, because you're so used to being told one way and they're like,

[00:42:55] Oh, I don't believe that. But then it's the emotional immaturity, right? Like I can't make my own decision. That's like someone who, like you say, you go from one toxic or abusive relationship to the next. Yep. Yeah. Cause you haven't healed yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. What kept you from

[00:43:15] joining Tom Cruise? Yeah. I, I didn't want a man telling me what to do. I had enough of that. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the top. Those are the big three, the, the, um, science. And I think Scientology is another one that's taking a big hit these days also. And I think it's from a lot of the,

[00:43:39] well, celebrities that, uh, what's her name? Um, yeah, there you go. She, she's very boisterous about it. And, um, just a lot of the same thing with the internet and how it can, it can, um, that's one thing. That's a big thing also with trying to control information, because now when you have access to information and different sides to one story, and now the person, the individual has the

[00:44:07] ability, if they allow themselves to start sifting through the weeds and seeing what is true and what isn't true to think critically for themselves. Ah, critical thinking. Yes. Yeah. That's forbidden. Oh, yeah. And I still get attention of, I'm doing something wrong when I listen to like anti-Mormon literature. I see like someone talking negatively on Instagram about the Mormon church.

[00:44:36] I'm just like, I shouldn't, oh, I shouldn't be listening to this. It's still like in there, you know, still ingrained. Wow. And this is years later. Years later. This is multiple therapists. This is multiple support groups. This is acupuncture, all the woo woo stuff out there.

[00:44:57] And still, this is how ingrained the Mormon message is. When I hear that a woman is working outside of the home and the husband, and of course it's a hetero, you know, partnership, and the husband is at home taking care of the kids, I'm like, that's not right. That's not okay.

[00:45:19] Because that's the Mormon belief. That's, that's the only way to live is, is a straight couple and the wife stays at home and has multiple children. By them hearing that, because I don't think some people understand how much damage psychologically that can do to somebody, because you're talking about,

[00:45:40] you've not been involved in the church for over 20 years, right? Yeah. Over 20 years. Yeah. And this is something that is still in there somewhere that you've over years of, of healing and dealing with different ways to, to recover and to sort all of it out, to undo what's been done. But this is

[00:46:07] like a lifelong journey. Yes, it is. And it's exciting because I look at the progress that I've made. So hopefully in 20 years, I won't, I, it'll just be a little bit, just a little, a little pinpoint, a little pinpoint, right? Instead of like devastating. Yeah. It's a process.

[00:46:32] What were some, some big, big ingredients to help you with that? Getting sober. Yeah. A real pivotal point in my life. Did you go cold Turkey? Did, did you do it yourself? Yeah. So my husband, we weren't married at the time, but he, uh, went into the hospital for, he started throwing up blood and then he was diagnosed with cirrhosis and he had esophageal,

[00:46:58] he blew up his esophagus. Right. So he's like, if you don't quit drinking, then you're going to die. And we, me and him had talked about quitting drinking, right. But we were going to go on a trip to Vegas. And I'm like, why are we, why are we going to quit? Why are we going to quit drinking if we're going to Vegas? Let's wait till after the trip.

[00:47:24] So we had already had, we had already taken the week off. Right. So instead of going to Vegas, he was in the hospital, um, diagnosed with cirrhosis and they had to put bands on esophageal. I can't remember what it's called for months. They had to put bands on it. This is from him and his, and his drinking. Oh yeah. He, he drank from morning to night. Yeah. To bed. Wow.

[00:47:50] Yeah. I didn't, I didn't know him sober. Yeah. I didn't know the sober Scott because the minute he woke up, he started drinking vodka. And then I went home and drank the rest of the beer alone. And I remember, cause I had to go pick him up from the hospital and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm never going to drink again. This is 11 years ago. Yeah. 11 years ago. I'm like,

[00:48:19] I'm never going to drink again. And it was hard, you know, but it just kind of got to the point of I'm tired of running. Right. So he's in the hospital. I'm at home. My neighbor says, crystal, just move back to Texas. You're not married. You don't have children. You don't owe him anything. Get the hell out of here. And I just, I was tired of running. I'm tired of going

[00:48:44] state to state, tired of going city to city. I had been with Scott for two years and that was the changing point. And he didn't want to go to 12 step programs. And I was like, that's, I have family members that go. Um, I know it works. His sister dropped off some pamphlets. And the minute I walked into the rooms, I knew that's where my life was going to be different.

[00:49:10] Right. I knew that's where it was supposed to be. So I did sober support, working with multiple different sponsors, doing steps multiple times. And then from there, getting that foundation, getting into therapy, right. And then doing lifespan integration, which I love. So I'm, when I got sober, I guess I'm a high bottom drunk, whatever that means. When I got sober,

[00:49:38] I had just finished graduate school for counseling. So, so I'm a therapist, you know, I have a house, I'm not on the street. You know, when you, people think of drunk is like, you don't have any of that. And that's not true. Right. So I knew I was unhappy. And then, uh, I became suicidal and I got

[00:50:01] on medication and then all that guilt of, Oh my God, I am a therapist. I'm supposed to be helping people. And I just want to drive off the side of the road. So it's time for a change. All of the, um, the things that you were dealing with, the, the suicidal thoughts, the, the depression was that, do you think that was still a lot of the, the residue from your childhood and, and, uh,

[00:50:28] what you had went through? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So I got sober in 2013 and then the Mormons, then like the missionaries came to the house, the Bishop, I don't know if you've been to Seattle area, but I mean, it's dark and gray. I mean, at like four 30 in the winter, right? It's people

[00:50:53] don't come up. Right. And the, this strange man comes up to my house. I'm like, get the heck out of here. So they came, the missionaries came a couple of times and then, um, the Relief Society, they're the adult women. They dropped off cookies and I was like, enough. Oh, were they trying to reel you back in? Of course. They were trying to reel me back in. Right. Cause I, my mom's like, my mom does this wherever I move, she sends the Mormons over and

[00:51:21] she's like, Oh my gosh, uh, crystal sober. Now, you know, I had uncle that got sober and then went back to church. I have a brother that got sober, went back to church. So they, they think that if I get sober, then I will become Mormon again. You're prime, you're prime, you're ready. Like the prodigal son, you're going to come back or daughter. Yeah. And, uh, I was not having it. And I called my husband or my husband went out there one time and got them to leave. And then

[00:51:50] when I got the cookies from the Relief Society women, I was like, that's it. And I wrote a letter and I said, I've asked you guys not to come here. And multiple times you've ignored my wishes. If you come back again, I'm taking legal action. Um, and I sent it to the local church here in,

[00:52:13] in Washington. And a couple months later, I got a letter from Salt Lake city saying that I am removed from the Mormon church. I'm no longer in the records. Yeah. Yeah. So that was 2017. And that was another pivotal moment. I was like, Oh, and I did it. I finally did it. Right. Cause I was like, mom, or I called my mom for years. I was like, stop sitting in the missionaries over here.

[00:52:44] I yelled at my mom. You know, she has your best interest in heart, but little does she know that for you, this is completely, completely detrimental. Yeah, absolutely. But that had to be empowering. Once you finally received that, okay, the notice and like it 2017. And we're talking about you were in,

[00:53:09] you were born into it. 79. My God. Yeah. That's a long run. It is. The, while the sobriety was the big pivotal move in your life. And from there, it was a lot of momentum being built in, in maybe your self-confidence, your self-esteem, your self-worth, all of that was accumulating and growing. And, and then you get that letter. So you've been sober for 11 years, you said?

[00:53:35] Yeah. 11 years sober. Yeah. Yeah. I just switched it to food and, and I go to a support group for that as well. Now. Um, especially in the, in the past year, it's really grabbing. I don't think of drinking, like, I'm not going to pick up a drink. It's not, it just doesn't, I know it's not going to do any

[00:53:59] good for me, but it's not sugar. And it's the same exact issues. I don't want to deal with the feeling. So I'm going to eat just like when I was drinking. Right. I don't want to deal with this. I don't want, I'm stressed out. It's Tuesday afternoon, whatever. Right. So I did this workbook, food and feelings workbook. And it goes through like, when you feel guilt, you know, we overeat. It's just,

[00:54:28] we just got, we got to feel to heal. Right. That's what therapists say. We got to feel to heal. And so today it's granted. I think I've been off sugar for like eight days. It's nothing. It's not that much, but it's, no, but that is, but it is a long time if you think about it. Cause I could have, I could right now just put a challenge out to anybody do eight days without sugar and see,

[00:54:55] or just try to do, you know, go without sugar, see how long you can go. I know the feeling, like, I, I can't say that I'm off sugar right now. I still, I do try to do things in moderation and I do just try to live a much healthier life than I once did. But when I, I went to a retreat, it was a ayahuasca retreat. And so for the month, the 30 days that leading up to it, you know, there

[00:55:22] was a certain diet that I was trying to follow. And one of it was to keep away from sugar. And that was, oh my God, I didn't realize the alcohol that was like, okay, no problem. I don't, I don't want to drink. I don't need to drink. And the other things just cut down your social media usage, just different things to try to prepare yourself to receive this plant and out of the coffee, the caffeine. But the one thing was the sugar. My God, I didn't realize it until I tried to do it.

[00:55:52] And that's the devil. Yes. It's a beast. It's a beast. Yeah. Like a few days, I'm sure you probably were going through the withdrawals, the headaches, you had the urge and, and I don't know how you're feeling now. I wouldn't say I'm not off sugar. I'm off candy. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's what I would say that because I still have sugar in my coffee. Yeah. Okay. But it's a lot. It's organic. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:24] This is the raw sugar cane. Organic. Okay. Yeah. Do you feel a difference? I do. I do. And that's really exploring my spirituality. And that is a piece of overeating is a way to block myself from growing. And so I've been listening to lots of different spiritual teachers

[00:56:48] and, and food overeating is blocking my growth. And so I, I need to move. That's my, that's my next thing to do. That's interesting that you, with the spirituality, because I think there would be some people who, when they come from such a rigid upbringing, a religious upbringing, and sometimes they, what's the old saying? They throw the, the, the, uh, the baby away with the bathwater. It's like

[00:57:14] that, that I don't want religion. I don't want, some people get the, the confusion between spirituality and religion. And there is a difference, but it seems like you didn't. I do have issues with the God word. I do. And that's why I had issues. Yeah, I do. I have issues with traditional support programs when, when God is all in it. It's just, it's too much for me. Just

[00:57:44] kind of like the ingrained messages I have about women stay at home. That's how I have about God. Right. So why am I going to go to a support program when I have to undo those messages every time I hear this word, when I can go to this other group, it's like, that's not, that's not in our stuff. Right. So it's coming from, from within you and it's a secular approach. I just prefer a

[00:58:11] secular approach. So I used to be atheist. I would consider myself agnostic now and I'm open. I'm open to listen. It's just when I hear the G word, it's triggering for me. Yeah, no, no, that's, that's understandable. And, and I like that also. I like the fact that you're now dictating your life for one and that coming from where you come from, that's a huge step.

[00:58:39] But then also that you're exploring who you are and finding out what works for you. And I think you, you probably from being brought up and trained almost to live a certain way, to do a certain thing now, to, to go outside of those norms, which you would consider norm at that time is a, a, a completely, that's a new avenue and, and, and way of life. And it's, it's, I mean,

[00:59:05] I'm, I'm sure that it's opening you up to a whole lot more in life, just experiencing life and, and, you know, to explore this new road and path that you're on. Absolutely. You know, I find spirituality in nature and that's the Pacific Northwest is the best place to be. Right. It's, it's so beautiful here. And, uh, when I was drinking, my husband and I

[00:59:31] would carry beers, right. Or his vodka and not got beer. And I was like, and drinking the whole way. I was like, you can't really be spiritual and be in the present moment and listen to your inner knowing when you're drunk, hiking up. And then, you know, you drink too, I drink too much and then I get in a fight, you know, or I start fighting because that's what I do. It's just not compatible

[00:59:58] anymore. Right. So, and that's, so that's where I was like 12 years ago. That's how I feel about food now. I was like, okay, it served its purpose. It helped me the candy, you know, I was like, I'm not drinking. I quit smoking two years after I got sober, which was horrible. Like that was a lot worse than quitting drinking. And so it's pretty common to gain weight when you, or eat more when

[01:00:24] you quit smoking. Um, so I just kind of used to, as a crutch, Hey, I'm not drinking. I'm not smoking harm reduction. Right. But it's time it worked until it doesn't work anymore. I always want to keep growing. That's what it's about really. And, and that's the show is what I like to do is connect like for you, your, your upbringing, your background is completely different than, than a lot of people.

[01:00:49] Well, all of our experiences, it's, it's going to be unique. People find what works for them. And that's the whole point of just exposing people to these different, these different avenues of approach, these different lifestyles, and that they were able to make change to create change. And somebody listening to this, that could be in their own situation that they can, like we were talking about earlier, when they're ready, come to the realization that that's also possible for them.

[01:01:19] But they have to do the work. It, there's not a, until, I mean, we do have a lot of pills for everything nowadays, but I don't think they have that pill just yet where you can pop it and everything is, it's fixed. We have to do the work and take responsibility for ourselves and take accountability for ourselves. And to realize that we do have the power within us and we don't have to outsource

[01:01:46] to anything, to any ideology it's within us. We just have to explore it and find it for ourselves. Yeah. When I was in grad school, I had a instructor that was like, you know, when you get that knee jerk reaction, when someone pisses you off, like say, thank you. Ooh, I get to work on something now. Yay. Yay. There's, there's more progress there to make.

[01:02:12] No, that's right. And, and that's what I guess we do with a lot of these different things, whether it's food, sugar, alcohol, drugs, whatever it is, pick your poison. But we use that to get away from having to, like you mentioned it, when we do have a feeling or a trigger or something in us, and we don't want to deal with it. We go ahead and turn to these other things instead of like you said, feel the feel, what is it? What are you feeling at the time? The anxiety, the pressure,

[01:02:41] whatever it is that you're feeling and sit with that for a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I love lifespan integration. So yeah. What is that? Can you, can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. So I wasn't trained in it. I come from more like a cognitive behavioral therapy. And so I just looked at my insurance. She took my insurance. She's here in town. I'll go see her and lifespan

[01:03:08] integration. It's basically doing, you do like a whole timeline of your life with your therapist. And then you go through each event over and over and over. So when we, when we get traumatized, memories, you know, fragment, you know, from a spiritual perspective, our soul fragments,

[01:03:32] right? When we have these traumatic events. And so this is a way to integrate it. This is, you've heard of EMDR? Yeah, I have. Where the eye movement, it's an alternative to life. Lifespan integration is an alternative to it. So it's a less known trauma body based approach. So when I met with my therapist, the number one thing I remember was,

[01:04:01] oh, things weren't that bad. There was actually some good stuff that happened. So that like when I, when I went through my timeline with her, that was the first thing I was like, oh no, I did have some good, good little nuggets here. This was a great year. This is a great year. A lot of trauma in between there, but there's positive stuff. There was pockets of sunshine. Yeah. And so you start off with that. And then, um, I was having panic attacks really,

[01:04:31] really bad. And I started, or I had a phobia of driving on the freeway. I didn't drive on the freeway for like 10 years. And so, which is very challenging in Washington. So we go in there and we're like, okay, I had a panic attack today. Right. And they're like, okay, what age were you when you had your first panic attack? Okay. When do you first remember the first time you had anxiety? You had anxiety. You're like, oh, I remember having anxiety when I'm seven. And then you go from age

[01:05:00] seven, all the way up to 40. Right. And you just go seven, 10, 20, 25, and you integrate your whole life. That's the integration piece. So have you heard about gestalt therapy? So the two, the two sides of you and you bring together gestalt like that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now when you're going through and you're processing it from the first time throughout your life, are you in that finding

[01:05:29] the patterns or certain things that are triggering it? Like you're seeing like, okay, this is repetitive. It seems to be over this issue, or it seems to be, this is the underlining theme in every one of those, you know, reactions. You're pinning the tail on the donkey. Yeah. Yeah. So an example of my therapist would put me, like I would be in the, in my porch. I felt very safe in my porch. I would find

[01:05:56] my seven-year-old self. I'd have my seven-year-old self with me. We'd go through life together, the timeline together. And I'm like, I got you. I'm your adult self. You're good now. And then you leave her there and you go on your life. Yeah. So you're not fragmented anymore. That, that really is interesting. I really do see how, I think it's a lot more common now when people

[01:06:21] are, are, are being educated in that fact that we carry a lot of the, the trauma. And so they're either their spirits, their energies, these things are in our subconscious and they come out at certain times. And yeah, I, I know like when I was telling you about the ayahuasca retreat and I seen that, and I seen that, I seen visions of that. And it would, they were of me as a child. They were children

[01:06:48] from, I want to say the ages of, and these are the pivotal ages of your life, like from three to nine, 10, 11 years old. And I seen them coming at me in different personalities. Some were playful, some were afraid, some were helpless and their eyes were, they, some looked

[01:07:12] distorted, some were white, some were completely black. And these were different phases and personalities of my childhood that were coming at me and they were interacting with me. And yeah, it was a very powerful scene. And when I hear people talk about that now, I, I know exactly what that is. These, these personalities and these traumas and these things that we deal with

[01:07:40] for so long. And some of us, we never learned to explore that and to sort it out in, in our own way. Yeah. We stay too busy. We disconnect, we get high, we drink, we have lots of children. So we're too busy to do anything. Distract ourselves. Yes. Yes. Workaholic. That's me. So working on that,

[01:08:08] working on that one too. Oh, it sounds like, but, but you're really making an effort. You're taking some good strides. I mean, you've, you've come a long way from where you are now. I mean, like you said, you can look back to what the progress you made, even though, you know, we can say we're not where we want to be, but if we look at where we came from, you and your history and where you are now, it seems like you're doing a lot better than say 10 years ago. Oh God. Five years ago.

[01:08:38] Yeah. You know, I was listening to a lot of attraction stuff. Right. And basically it's, dude, I appreciate what you have right now. Be grateful for what you have in your life. I'm like, oh, no, I don't have a big amount amount in my, in my bank account, but I can pay the bills. Thank you. I paid my mortgage. Cool. And for some people, that's not even everything because

[01:09:05] they're still, they still have that void inside of them and we use it. We use a lot of different things to try to fill it, but it, money isn't everything. There's a lot of people with money and they're miserable. You know, they're drowning themselves in alcohol or they're, they're yeah, they have their own issues they're dealing with and even popularity and fame and notoriety. That's a, that's a cursing in itself. Some people are miserable with that. We see them on TV and they're a hot mess. So, uh, yeah, I'd rather deal with my problems.

[01:09:38] I'll deal with mine. And you have, I know you sent me, uh, I just want to look at what you sent me that, that trust your intuition. Oh yeah. Yeah. You had a few things on there. Are these things that these are practices that you do to, you know, to help you with your recovery or your whole healing process? Yeah. I wanted to bring up the, um, the muscle testing. So I got sober 2013. I got married to

[01:10:07] my husband 2015 and then time to have a baby. I'm 36. It's, I'm kind of old, right? But it's doable people. And I just, it just wasn't happening. And so I went into therapy for, dealing with this grief and that, and then I'm undoing the, Oh, it's cause I'm not Mormon. Oh,

[01:10:32] I should, if I was Mormon, I would be pregnant. Just weird stuff like that. You know, ingrained, ingrained messages. So my therapist did muscle testing with me and it's really cool. Do you know about this? When you sent me the PDF, I looked over it and you know what? I've heard it once or twice, but I can't say that I practice it or too familiar with it.

[01:10:54] Yeah. So if you, uh, I like the apple. So if you put an apple in your hand and you say, should I eat this? And if your body moves forward, it's yes. Most of the time, sometimes your body's different. So you need to check with your body if you're where you go for yes, no. But for me, my body, if it's yes, I'll move forward. If it's no, I'll move back. And if it's,

[01:11:23] it doesn't really matter or either answer is okay, it's, it's sideways, right? Well, so I was doing muscle testing and my body was saying, no, I don't want children. And I'm like, I don't understand. How can my mind, why am I going through so much grief, so much pain? And my body is saying, no, so then body issues. So I wish I never did. I was like, I'm young, cute, perky, like whatever,

[01:11:52] you know? And then, then I get to explore. It's like, Oh, one more thing I get to explore. So infertility is one of the hardest things I've ever been through. I mean, definitely a lot worse than getting married at 17. Took a toll on financially, emotionally, physically. I hated everybody. I hated everything. And now that I'm on the other side of it, oh my gosh, I want to help

[01:12:20] other people. Like you can get through it. I got to explore what envy was. I had no idea. I was never a jealous person. So I didn't know what jealousy was. And I definitely didn't know what envy was. And so it's just, I didn't know I had that in me. And I got through it. It sounds like that's your practice in life. You're using experiences in general, just as a,

[01:12:47] you know, they say life can be a teacher, the ultimate teacher. And so you're using all these experiences, your reactions, how you feel about it, what it does to you to explore yourself, growing, maturing, learning about yourself, maybe strengthen some weaknesses. You're able to see your weak points or some blind spots that you didn't see before. Yeah. You know, going back to the food thing today, because I do this a lot with my body and in eating

[01:13:15] a more spiritual way. I made homemade chili. And of course, my body's going to want that says yes. But I also grew up in Texas and love Frito pies. And so I'm going to throw some Fritos on it. And my body's like, no, no, don't eat the Fritos. And I did anyways. I was like, no, I'm doing it. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to show you, you can't tell me what to do. What? Whatever.

[01:13:45] And what happened? Oh, whatever. I'm still alive. I'm fine. But I feel more weighed down. And I want to feel light. I want to feel more spiritual, lighter. And food is a way for me to do that. And I'm not listening to it. So trying to find that balance, that middle ground somehow, right? Taking action. That's the hard piece. But I'm like, yeah, it's, it's tough stuff. This,

[01:14:11] this EFT tapping technique. It's a lot of the muscle testing. This is all body work, right? And so I love acupuncture. Oh, I would go every day if possible, but. I've never done that, but I've heard people talk about how, how it was very helpful for them. Oh my gosh. I love it. I originally went to quit smoking and there's all these

[01:14:37] areas in your ear that they do for addiction. It made my cigarettes taste awful. I mean, I persevered and kept smoking, but kept smoking. I was like, oh my God, this tastes awful. But I kept doing it. Greatly helped with my depression, anxiety. So yeah, I'm, I'm a firm believer in it. And so, because I can't do acupuncture every day, you're able to do tapping techniques and it's all over

[01:15:06] YouTube. You can look at it. The easiest one I do, cause it's like a whole routine to go through multiple things. Oh, I haven't done it in a while, but I like the heart one where it's just covering your heart. And it's like, even though I have anxiety, I completely accept and love myself, right? You can make your own mantra, your own affirmation. And it's really just kind of slowing

[01:15:30] down. Right. It's been a while, but you do, you do like from your, your head, you're in the eyebrows, the temples, the cheeks, under the lip, above, under the sides. Probably can't hear me because it's audio, but under the arms. And then you just repeat it over and over again with the, on these spots. So, okay. That, but I mean, these are all techniques that you found helpful in your own,

[01:15:59] your own life. Yeah. And I still do yin yoga. It's my favorite yoga. I was doing the yin yoga. I went in there in the height of my like infertility grief. And of course there's a pregnant person right next to me. And like, I'm trying to heal. I'm trying to heal. Never saw her again or never been around a

[01:16:24] pregnant person there again. But, uh, I cried maybe like the first couple months I went there like once a week and it's just like all that store trauma in my hips and my, you know, uh, shock speaking like chakra, you know, I have like blockages and root and sacral chakras. Um, and so like, just,

[01:16:50] just scooping all that stuff out. Right. Yeah. So that's what I lean more towards like the, the Eastern philosophy of things. I mean, I, I'm not a Buddhist or a Taoist or I, I just like to pick things and, and do it. And no one's going to tell me what to do. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it my way. That's what it's about. I mean, we're exploring and you're picking out

[01:17:16] what's going to work with you. Everybody is different and every body is different. You're going to react differently. It's going to do for you what it doesn't do for somebody else. And that, that the way that you talked about the body and storing stress, I mean, that is the psychosomatic. That's what a lot of our, our trauma and whatever we dealt with that is affecting

[01:17:41] us. We stored in our body and it eventually translates and manifests itself into diseases, sickness, wondering why we sometimes have these acid refluxes or why do I have these migraines? And it's like, there's sometimes there is an underlining issue. You don't need a pill necessarily all the time, but what let's get to the root of it. And if you don't get acquainted with who you are,

[01:18:08] your body, your feelings, what you're going through, then you're never going to find that underlining issue. You know, nowadays it's so easy and so convenient to just, we want to get fixed right away. Let me get that pill. Let me take, you could take this, that, and the other thing, but to do the work and to just, uh, you know, to get quiet with, you can do it on your own. Just get quiet with yourself and just explore those feelings and, and those, those underlining issues. And maybe

[01:18:35] that can be, once you deal with that, you might start seeing in effect, like, wow, I don't have these pains anymore. Or this went away. My back isn't aching the way it was, or my posture is a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I use all the tools, right? So I have an antidepressant that I've been on for years. Yeah. You got a tool bag. I do. I have that. I haven't

[01:19:02] used. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to kill myself. So I'm going to, I'm going to stay on it. Yeah. I haven't used my, my benzo in a year. Maybe I think the last time I used this when I flew to Austin a year ago. So, which is just amazing because five years ago I couldn't leave the house by myself. It was hard to work. So. And, um, along with those techniques, that's cool that you were able to share that. I appreciate

[01:19:28] that. It's always interesting to hear what's working for somebody, what are they using, um, and their life to, um, help them with their own recovery, their own healing. And it's not a one size fits all. Like, of course, medication, it has its place. And I'm not saying that everybody should do without it, but the fact that like you, you're making it a point to allow yourself to experiment on yourself and not to be afraid of it and to see where it takes you. Yeah. And it's

[01:19:57] taking you, it seems in a, in a much better direction than, you know, as opposed to where you were. So that's a, that's promising and a great thing to hear in itself. And I'm sure encouraging for somebody that they're trying to figure out how to kind of sort out some of the madness in their own life. Yes. Yes. To live a more authentic life. Now the memoir, we talked a bit about it offline. Is this something you're still working on? So it should be out in a couple of months, spring of 2025.

[01:20:27] Oh, so you're pretty much done with it. Yes. Just kind of wrapping things up a little bit and then goes to editing soon. So I'm projecting a couple of months out. If you go to my website, redefinedfam.com. So I'll have updates on that. I've started a blog of just little snippets of like, trust this flyer that I gave you these, these three little interventions, you know, maybe this will work for you. Maybe it won't.

[01:20:56] Maybe it'll work for a friend of yours, you know, it's just realistic things to do. And then just little nuggets about my story. And then Instagram and Facebook is on there. Links to that as well. So your memoir, was it, was it kind of tough to read, to revisit some of that stuff or you didn't really have too much of a, some people when they go back and they start to unpack everything, it could be, it could be painful. I don't know how it was for you.

[01:21:24] Because I've done so much therapy, it wasn't so much for me. What changed was being honest with my family about it. I've talked about it. I dealt with what happened to me, but I haven't really shared the impact it had on me to my, my parents and my siblings. I had a really good conversation

[01:21:46] with my mother about high school days and that we were just really open. And she's like, I'm sorry, apologize for that. She's like, I try to do the best I can. I was like, yeah, I mean, you were raised by, my grandmother was really mean. When my grandmother was 90, she told me she was going to beat me down and make me bleed in the corner. Okay. She's not a nice person. I'm like, you did

[01:22:13] better than your mother. I was like, yeah, you gave me issues. Yeah. Can you pay for some of my therapy bills? At the same time, I mean, I felt like it was genuine. I felt like, you know, she does, she does feel bad about, she didn't make some poor choices and I'm not blaming her or my dad. I guess there's blame on the Mormon church. I don't, I don't really like the word blame.

[01:22:38] Seems like you, you're already at a place where you were able to forgive them. There's no resentment. There's no hard feelings. You know, what's done is done. And you, now you, you can build on the relationship that you're able to have, you know, with the time that you, you're still allotted here on this beautiful green earth. Well, I keep my distance. That's why I live 1500 miles away. Oh, so just through phone conversation. We have a family zoom meeting every Sunday. I'm like,

[01:23:07] mom, that's too much. I'll see you like maybe once every couple months. I can't, can't every, that's okay. You know, your, you know, your limits. My boundaries. Therapy. Yes. Lots of boundaries. Yes. Yeah. I'm really grateful to like have the opportunity to come on here and thank you for having me on. And I'm really excited about this memoir. I actually started this a year ago. I was

[01:23:37] meeting with an intuitive life coach. I had made peace with not getting pregnant. We weren't going to adopt. We weren't going to, I was just decided it's time to move on from this. And so I was meeting with her and really just did some woo woo, woo woo stuff, woo woo spiritual stuff and just got to the root things. And she's like, she helped me decide to write this memoir. So I'm excited.

[01:24:07] This has been great. It's been great to, to connect with you and then hear the way you've, you've been able to take back control after living your, your, your being oppressed for so long and taught to play your position. And don't you dare get out of line because you have this and this and this to deal with, but with all of that, um, outside pressure, there was still something in you

[01:24:32] that said, you know what? I'm worth more than what I'm being told. And you didn't just think it and feel it, but you eventually acted out. And here you are today, a completely different person than you were five years ago, 10 years ago, and still growing, still evolving as we should, you know, we're all works in progress. You sent me, um, some of your information, your website. And so people will have access to it. I'll put that in the show notes. And then so they can see,

[01:25:02] yeah, what else you're involved with. And then once your, your memoir is published, and if they're interested to read some of your story in depth and detail, and I'm sure there's people that can relate with the way that the internet has given us access to information. We talked about it. A lot of people now are being exposed to more than just one side of the story. And that is really, really important for people to expose themselves to different

[01:25:32] viewpoints and perspectives. And then once they have somebody over them saying, this is gospel, you don't dare question it to critically think that is something that is very important. And I really emphasize, like we need to start embracing that and using it. And that shouldn't be something that should be discouraged or talked down on. We really need to think critically for ourselves. And Crystal, I really, really appreciated your story. We made some time. I was happy that we were

[01:26:02] able to do this. And if you have anything else you'd like to leave off with, some final words or anything that you have on your heart and your mind, feel free. Oh, one little nugget of joy. My stepdaughter had a baby a month ago and we've been taking care of him.

[01:26:21] That's just been another time to like, hey, enjoy the moment and appreciate what we have. And I'm so glad I didn't have kids in my 20s. So. Because this is hard. Oh, yeah. You get to see it now. Well, you get to experience this years later, but as a grandmother

[01:26:47] and not a mother. Yeah. I was in the delivery room. I was like, I'm glad I didn't go through that. I'm so grateful for new family. Yeah. Chosen family. Well, that's a beautiful thing. Crystal, thank you so much for your time. All the best to you, your granddaughter, your husband, and yeah, the rest of your walk is going to be an interesting one.

[01:27:13] Yeah. Yes. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation. And once again, Crystal, thank you so much for spending some time with us and opening up your book and sharing a bit of your story, talking about the whole experience being brought up as a Mormon and some of the difficulties that it presented, the conditioning, the control, a predetermined life that one is meant to live.

[01:27:39] And in your case, being a woman, someone who is told to stay at home so that they can have and raise kids. And this was a program that was instilled in you at an early age, something that you struggled with and something that wasn't sitting right with you. It was your questioning. It was your convictions. It was your courage that eventually helped you break down those walls of a religious dogma and opened you up to new possibilities, spiritually, emotionally, and even physically in what you can

[01:28:09] do with your life and how you can live it. And all of that has led to a new path for you, a path with promise, a path with hope, and a lifelong quest of discovering who you are as a unique human being free to choose and be at will. All the best to you, yours, and the rest of your journey at large, you are a giant amongst us. You'll be able to find more of what Crystal does, access to her

[01:28:37] website and all the services and resources that she has available that will all be included in the show notes. And a big shout out to all of you listening from the US, from Europe, from Australia, Canada, parts of Asia, South America. Thank you for supporting the show. Thank you to everybody who has sent emails and your warm words, your feedback, your thoughts. It's always appreciated. It's always

[01:29:03] great to hear. And I'm looking forward to bringing more stories and connections as we continue to grow together, as we continue to build together. I want to wish you all a great rest of the week. Stay safe out there. Stay sane out there. Remember, let's be sure to question things. Trust our intuition. We're powerful. We're unique. We're capable. It's just up to us to wake up to that fact and realize it, actualize it,

[01:29:33] materialize it. We're going to catch up and do this again real soon. But before I wrap this up, I'd like to remind you, if you would like to be a part of the show and share your story or even a story of someone in your life that has impacted you in a positive way, you can always reach out to us via email. We'd be happy to connect until next time and very soon. Peace.

[01:30:09] I'm looking for a sign to know I'm on the right road. Ain't seen no signs in Jericho.