My Debilitating Sleep Disorder And What I Did Trying To Overcome It || Ethan

[00:00:01] What's up everybody.

[00:00:21] Welcome back to the show.

[00:00:23] Thank you for tuning in wherever it is you're tuned in from and however it is you're listening

[00:00:28] to the show.

[00:00:29] This is Giants Amongst Us where we share in the unique human experience and where

[00:00:36] you're going to hear every time real stories told by real people, people just like yourself.

[00:00:45] These stories are testaments.

[00:00:47] They're examples of what the human spirit is capable of, how change can be made, how

[00:00:54] a life can be recovered that was once broken, that was once hopeless, that was once destitute.

[00:01:02] And this is what we share and this is what we celebrate.

[00:01:05] It's not to say what help somebody else is going to help you, but the fact that by you

[00:01:10] listening to these stories they may encourage you.

[00:01:13] They may inspire you to want to start looking inward and working on yourself if you're

[00:01:18] not satisfied with where you're at, if you're not happy with the way things are

[00:01:22] going.

[00:01:23] We're all works in progress.

[00:01:25] This isn't for everybody, but it's about building.

[00:01:28] It's about evolving.

[00:01:29] It's about growing.

[00:01:31] It's about maturing and try to make the best out of this overall human experience that

[00:01:35] we all share in.

[00:01:37] So you guys kick your feet up as you let this play in the background or you can take

[00:01:41] this with you as you stroll through the woods or around the block or do whatever

[00:01:46] it is you do as you listen to this.

[00:01:49] It's good to be back.

[00:01:51] It's good to share another story.

[00:01:53] And today Ethan joins us and he's got a story to tell.

[00:01:57] In school, everything came pretty easy for Ethan.

[00:02:01] It was a breeze.

[00:02:02] His teachers considered him gifted, but not too long in the high school, he started to

[00:02:08] notice some changes.

[00:02:09] Depression, feeling sluggish throughout the day, brain fog, problems with sleep,

[00:02:15] his condition it wouldn't get any better.

[00:02:17] He found himself struggling socially, shying away from people, feeling awkward,

[00:02:23] overwhelmed with anxiety, which was a startling contrast to how he was as a child.

[00:02:29] This led him down a year long journey trying to figure out what was affecting him mentally,

[00:02:35] physically, emotionally, and despite all his efforts engaging in hobbies,

[00:02:41] intermittent fasting, changes in his diet, psychotherapy, his condition seemed to only

[00:02:48] get worse.

[00:02:49] Eventually, while doing his own research, digging through all the weeds and trying

[00:02:53] to find information, he stumbled upon a condition and things for him started to click.

[00:02:59] Upper airway resistance syndrome, which is a type of sleep apnea and something prior

[00:03:05] to our conversation I wasn't too familiar with.

[00:03:08] And today, Ethan's going to walk us through how this type of sleep apnea affected

[00:03:14] every aspect of his life.

[00:03:16] It may have cost it some of the ways he's tried to cope with it, including a past surgery

[00:03:22] and a big motivation as to why he fought tooth and nail and was persistent, not

[00:03:30] giving up being totally proactive in his road to recovery.

[00:03:35] That big why for him was music.

[00:03:38] Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, this is Ethan and his story.

[00:03:44] Yeah, I mean, I guess starting in my childhood and how this plays into my story as a whole.

[00:03:50] But growing up, I was very smart.

[00:03:52] Pretty much everything came easily for me.

[00:03:55] All my teachers said I was gifted, I would have a bright future.

[00:03:58] And as I got older, I started having more problems.

[00:04:02] But really, beginning in high school was when I started having more health issues.

[00:04:08] And so I remember at the time, I was say 14, 15.

[00:04:12] And I just started being a lot more prone to becoming depressed.

[00:04:16] I would become a lot more tired during the day, as well as developing a lot of brain fog,

[00:04:22] which obviously brain fog is kind of a subjective term, means something different

[00:04:26] depending on who you ask.

[00:04:28] But I remember I'd be in school and about half a day through the day,

[00:04:31] I would just hit this wall where I just was so tired I couldn't focus anymore.

[00:04:35] So I'd go home and basically just nap and wake up and I'd still be too tired.

[00:04:41] Couldn't focus on my homework.

[00:04:43] And then I couldn't sleep because I had just napped all afternoon.

[00:04:46] And so that went on throughout high school until I started

[00:04:50] trying these different lifestyle changes my senior year of high school,

[00:04:53] because my academics were really suffering.

[00:04:55] So I started doing things like cycle commuting,

[00:04:58] riding my bike everywhere locally, drinking only water,

[00:05:01] try and make changes in my diet.

[00:05:03] I tried intermittent fasting, meditation and all these kinds of things.

[00:05:07] But I kept feeling worse.

[00:05:09] So that's kind of the background in terms of my childhood leading up to my adulthood.

[00:05:14] That's interesting that early on right away, you were taking matters into your own hands,

[00:05:19] making lifestyle changes, experimenting with yourself to try to better your condition.

[00:05:25] Did you at all prior to this seek professional help?

[00:05:28] Yeah, I mean, at the time when I started doing some psychotherapy and went to the doctor here

[00:05:35] and there, they would usually just say that it was because of depression.

[00:05:40] Which I feel like just kind of the cop out when you come and say,

[00:05:44] oh, I'm having XYZ symptoms and they say, well, it's because you're depressed.

[00:05:48] But at the time, it's like I didn't really know any better.

[00:05:50] So I had this mentality of, well, if depression is what my problem is,

[00:05:55] then I'm sure there are lifestyle changes I can make in order to help myself to feel better.

[00:05:59] So that was the mentality and why I started experimenting with those things.

[00:06:03] So how did that play out for you?

[00:06:05] The psychotherapy, fasting, diet changes, lifestyle changes.

[00:06:11] Did you see any positive results or did any success come from it?

[00:06:17] Yes, but not significantly.

[00:06:19] I remember, for example, when I would do intermittent fasting, I would feel less bloated.

[00:06:23] And also because I used to eat a breakfast of like a glass of milk and eggs.

[00:06:28] And so cutting that out and just drinking water and skipping breakfast,

[00:06:33] I actually felt like my digestion improved.

[00:06:36] I did notice too that with the meditation,

[00:06:39] I felt like it would give me a bit more distance between my thoughts.

[00:06:42] So one thing I remember, for example, was, you know, this was years ago,

[00:06:46] but this stuck out for me where I dropped something.

[00:06:49] My immediate reaction was that I wanted to swear, but I had this split second

[00:06:53] time where I was about to get angry.

[00:06:55] And then I realized, oh, well, there's no point in getting angry because I can just clean this up.

[00:07:00] So I just cleaned it up instead of like swearing at myself.

[00:07:03] So those were some of the improvements, but I still

[00:07:06] had this unshakable sense of chronic fatigue, brain fog, not being able to focus,

[00:07:12] and just not quite feeling like myself or like something just wasn't quite right.

[00:07:16] Suffering the way that you were mentally, the brain fog,

[00:07:21] emotionally, physically feeling drained, exhausted, the chronic fatigue,

[00:07:26] as well as academically.

[00:07:28] What about socially?

[00:07:29] Your relationship with your friends or family members, was that affected in any way?

[00:07:35] Yeah. I mean, my family, I think too, they thought that I was just becoming more depressed,

[00:07:40] but I would say at the time I started struggling more also with anxiety socially

[00:07:46] and started feeling more shy and just generally awkward,

[00:07:49] which was kind of different from my childhood where, like I said,

[00:07:52] pretty much everything came easily.

[00:07:54] I made friends easily.

[00:07:56] But going through after finishing high school, which I actually had to take summer school

[00:08:01] to get my diploma because I failed one of my physics classes.

[00:08:05] But yeah, after finishing high school then, sorry, what was it?

[00:08:12] Remind me what the question?

[00:08:13] Oh, is it how I was doing socially?

[00:08:15] Yeah.

[00:08:16] Yeah.

[00:08:17] I started going to more like rave events locally and sometimes I remember I'd show up with one

[00:08:23] or two friends, but I was so quiet.

[00:08:25] My friends with the friends would, they say, hey, what's up with Ethan?

[00:08:29] Like he's really quiet, why doesn't he talk much?

[00:08:32] And at the time I think I was just shy or introverted.

[00:08:36] But again, I don't think I was necessarily able to look back,

[00:08:39] or at the time I couldn't necessarily put that together and realize that perhaps something

[00:08:44] physically was wrong and that was influencing the brain fog, which was influencing how I felt

[00:08:49] like it was becoming more difficult to connect to people socially.

[00:08:53] Yeah.

[00:08:55] So moving on, I guess through my adulthood, I ended up going to an audio trade school

[00:08:59] because I had this mentality of maybe if I try staying engaged with my hobby or my music

[00:09:06] and audio hobby then this would help me with my depression.

[00:09:09] But if anything, it just ended up making me feel worse and I kind of had the same problem

[00:09:13] if I just barely graduated.

[00:09:16] And so it was actually after finishing the trade school was around the time

[00:09:20] the COVID pandemic started and that was when I just hit this wall where I'm like,

[00:09:24] physiologically something's just not adding up here.

[00:09:27] I just keep feeling worse despite everything I'm trying.

[00:09:29] And so I went on this huge journey where I spent that whole year

[00:09:33] doing a lot of research online.

[00:09:34] I was researching brain fog and talking to other people on Reddit about what could be

[00:09:40] causing brain fog.

[00:09:41] And so I started basically creating like a huge list of things that it could possibly be

[00:09:46] and started going one by one, seeing doctors and checking things off.

[00:09:51] And it wasn't actually until the end of the year when I came across

[00:09:56] a type of sleep apnea called UARS or upper area resistance syndrome

[00:10:01] and things started clicking to me.

[00:10:03] At first I didn't think sleep apnea was the problem, even though now I guess that

[00:10:07] would make sense that chronic fatigue and brain fog would be related to my sleep.

[00:10:11] But I thought sleep apnea was something that affected people that were older,

[00:10:15] heavier, snored, had like a wider neck or whatnot.

[00:10:18] But I kind of was in the opposite demographic.

[00:10:21] And so I read online that these people were saying that they would do sleep studies.

[00:10:25] These young thin people would do sleep studies that showed that there weren't

[00:10:29] apneas or oxygen desaturations.

[00:10:31] But then they found out they still have this breathing problem called UARS.

[00:10:35] And so I guess to put a bit more context,

[00:10:38] obstructed sleep apnea originally was discovered in the 60s and it was studied in

[00:10:42] mostly people that were heavier and presented with daytime sleepiness kind of fitted that

[00:10:48] demographic.

[00:10:49] And then in the 90s, it was found that there were more studies done on thinner people where

[00:10:54] they would complain of this daytime fatigue, but they might not have the same

[00:10:58] apnea episodes.

[00:10:59] But it was found that their sleep quality was still being fragmented because let's say

[00:11:05] they'd be struggling to breathe in their sleep and the resistance in the airway would

[00:11:09] still create these arousals that would prevent them from getting restorative sleep.

[00:11:13] But their body might not be so sensitive to where they actually completely stop breathing.

[00:11:20] And so you might, a person with this condition might fall asleep, spend all night

[00:11:24] struggling to breathe and never get any REM sleep.

[00:11:27] But they might not show any noticeable decrease in their oxygen desaturation.

[00:11:31] So I kind of went down this whole rabbit hole then learning about jaw development

[00:11:36] and jaw structure and how that plays into things like airway health.

[00:11:41] And things started clicking more as I realized that I had gone through braces twice

[00:11:46] because my teeth were so crooked and my jaws were not developing in the correct way.

[00:11:50] I kept developing these issues with my bite.

[00:11:53] And so I was like, I feel like this is it and this adds up.

[00:11:58] I did eventually do a sleep study, but the sleep clinic, I didn't feel like had enough

[00:12:02] understanding to properly diagnose the UARS.

[00:12:06] But I was diagnosed on paper with mild obstructive sleep apnea because there was

[00:12:11] a little bit of apneas, which was super ironic because at this time I could barely

[00:12:16] leave my house basically just because of how much fatigue I had.

[00:12:19] I had to leave all my jobs.

[00:12:21] I couldn't do school anymore.

[00:12:23] And so I would say that it was around that time when I pinned it down to that issue.

[00:12:27] Through all this active research on your part, digging through online information

[00:12:33] and trying to find the root cause of your condition or get any type of answer,

[00:12:37] what was the general consensus like for the doctors that you visit?

[00:12:41] Did each one of them write it all off and label it as depression?

[00:12:45] I mean kind of a mix.

[00:12:47] So I remember I saw one psychiatrist and when I said, oh, I am having brain fog,

[00:12:52] he said, well, maybe this is like an ADHD thing.

[00:12:56] Which again, at the time, brain fog is a very vague term and I could see how that would be

[00:13:00] misdiagnosed, but I didn't necessarily realize how abnormal was that this brain fog

[00:13:05] wasn't just something that was impacting my concentration, but it was impacting my entire

[00:13:11] view of the world and the way that I interpreted my life and the things

[00:13:15] that were happening around me.

[00:13:17] But I think probably one of the doctors that maybe had some kind of an idea was

[00:13:25] I went to an allergist and I was saying, I'm having this brain fog.

[00:13:29] And I saw on Reddit some person said they found they had very bad environmental allergens

[00:13:34] and their brain fog improved when they started treating that.

[00:13:38] And so they suggested to me, oh, do you ever like wake up gasping in your sleep

[00:13:42] because then you could have sleep apnea?

[00:13:44] But again, I've never experienced waking up gasping.

[00:13:46] I've never snored.

[00:13:48] And at the time too, I just thought this was something that affected the older population,

[00:13:51] like my grandpa who does.

[00:13:53] I knew had diagnosed sleep apnea, but it wasn't until really other people online

[00:14:01] I started talking to with this issue.

[00:14:03] Like I remember is around this time at the end of 2020.

[00:14:07] I joined this discord called Sleep Disorder Breathing and I talked to other people

[00:14:13] around my age with similar issues.

[00:14:15] There's one, for example, a guy from France who also has an interview online.

[00:14:20] If you search RAFA, UARS, R-A-F-A, that's his name, UARS, who is this French guy.

[00:14:28] And I was kind of flipping out like messaging this guy, like look,

[00:14:31] like I'm having the scatterbrain.

[00:14:33] Now I'm getting all these intrusive thoughts.

[00:14:35] The whole world is just fogged up and I don't know what's going on.

[00:14:38] He was kind of reassuring me like, yeah, I have all those symptoms.

[00:14:41] That's what it feels like and you're going to be okay.

[00:14:44] So it wasn't really even the doctors.

[00:14:46] I feel like that were so much as helpful as research that I did,

[00:14:50] as well as research that I did just from talking to other people online

[00:14:53] that were going through similar things.

[00:14:54] Going from 2020 into 2021, this whole year was like my hell year

[00:15:00] where there was kind of just a blur for me.

[00:15:02] I felt like I was just existing in a survival mode and felt like

[00:15:06] I was just frantically trying to figure out treatment.

[00:15:10] And so the first thing that I tried was a CPAP machine.

[00:15:14] And then I also later tried a BiPAP machine.

[00:15:17] So basically when we breathe, then as we go into the deeper stages of sleep,

[00:15:24] like REM and deep sleep, the muscles in our body relax

[00:15:28] and our body starts to focus on healing itself.

[00:15:30] But for me, it was actually when the muscles in my throat would relax

[00:15:33] that the breathing issues were at the worst.

[00:15:37] And so I learned that this comes from an issue called negative pressure,

[00:15:41] where as the negative pressure is generated in the airway

[00:15:44] from the airway being constricted, this creates collapse and breathing issues.

[00:15:48] So these machines are called positive airway pressure machines.

[00:15:51] There's a continuous and a bi-level one.

[00:15:54] And I really struggled to tolerate that.

[00:15:58] But I did notice that there were a handful of days where let's say I wake up

[00:16:01] and it would be like a new layer of brain fog would lift

[00:16:05] and I could access a part of my mind I felt like I couldn't access before.

[00:16:09] Or let's say I would wake up the first time I noticed a difference.

[00:16:12] And I sat down on my computer and worked on music for like four straight hours,

[00:16:17] whereas before I couldn't make anything for four months.

[00:16:20] And so for me, I was like, I know I'm definitely going in the right direction,

[00:16:24] but it was reaching the point where these machines were starting to cause panic attacks

[00:16:29] because it would create this feeling of almost like I was drowning or suffocating on air.

[00:16:33] So I was like, this is not really sustainable.

[00:16:37] And when I was posting in the group chat on Discord,

[00:16:40] these people were talking about this new kind of an adult

[00:16:43] pallet expander called an MSE or maxillary skeletal expander.

[00:16:47] So I started researching this and the idea is that

[00:16:51] when our jaws don't develop as large as they should,

[00:16:54] then they're more narrow when recessed in our skulls.

[00:16:58] And by widening the upper jaw, this can help widen the floor of the nose and improve our breathing.

[00:17:04] Growing up, like I was a mouth breather,

[00:17:06] but I didn't realize how bad my breathing issues were because that's just what I was used to.

[00:17:11] And so I started calling around and found this local orthodontist

[00:17:14] who did this procedure and so I came in to do a consultation.

[00:17:18] Pretty much the first thing he said was, this probably won't fix your problem.

[00:17:22] The best treatment is a type of surgery called a bimax advancement

[00:17:26] or double jaw surgery where they cut and advance both of your upper jaws

[00:17:30] so that they're no longer recessed in your skull.

[00:17:32] Because if you imagine the size of a person's airway

[00:17:35] is the distance from their spine or their jaws to their spine.

[00:17:39] So by advancing the jaws forward, it expands the whole airway here.

[00:17:44] Initially my parents didn't, weren't cool with that because they were like,

[00:17:47] that's, I mean, who wants to have their, see their son get their jaws cut off their face?

[00:17:53] But I was doing all this research and talking to people and I'm like,

[00:17:56] I really think that this is what I need.

[00:17:58] And so I kind of reached back out to this orthodontist and said, look,

[00:18:02] like I just need to keep this ball rolling.

[00:18:04] I want to get the expander, but I also want to start consulting surgeons for this

[00:18:08] jaw surgery procedure.

[00:18:10] And he said, you know, I totally support you in that.

[00:18:14] But the problem was I wanted to consult with four or five surgeons,

[00:18:19] but the surgeon that I ended up doing the operation was the one that I was originally

[00:18:23] referred to, who mostly just did more like simple bite correction and wisdom tooth removal.

[00:18:30] So kind of going into the, as I kept progressing from 2021 to 2022,

[00:18:36] I was trying to plan this surgery.

[00:18:38] I started doing this orthodontic work, got back in braces for like the third time.

[00:18:43] I also learned too because that, and this is how I realized things were connecting and

[00:18:47] clicking.

[00:18:48] I grew up with some issues with speech and with my tongue.

[00:18:52] I had a bit of a wisp and again, I was, I grew up mouth breathing.

[00:18:56] So basically when you swallow your tongue is supposed to rest up and press against

[00:19:02] the roof of the mouth.

[00:19:03] And if you're do this as a child, when your bones are still malleable,

[00:19:07] that gentle force of the muscles, the tongue can actually encourage the jaws to

[00:19:11] develop wider.

[00:19:13] And so I was able to put that connection of, I grew up with this problem where I couldn't

[00:19:17] position my tongue properly, my mouth.

[00:19:19] And that was why I kept developing this open bite problem.

[00:19:22] And that was related to these issues with my jaws.

[00:19:26] And so it reached the point where it was like fall of 2021.

[00:19:30] I just kind of shut down and I just told my orthodontist, I'm like, look,

[00:19:36] I'm done chasing down doctors.

[00:19:38] I just need to feel better.

[00:19:39] I'm going to go to the surgeon who referred me to, and I started basically fighting

[00:19:43] my insurance company, trying to figure out how I could get coverage for this procedure.

[00:19:47] And I was also thinking about if I ended up not winning the insurance case,

[00:19:51] I could do medical tourism to Mexico and pay it out of pocket costs for,

[00:19:55] which was like a fraction of the cost that it was here.

[00:19:58] And so, but because I ended up winning my insurance case,

[00:20:01] I did the surgery here, went into the surgery and I was already,

[00:20:05] you know, just feeling like a tired corpse, but I was at the end of my rope

[00:20:09] and I'm like, I just need to feel better.

[00:20:11] And so we did the operation.

[00:20:14] The recovery was a lot more difficult than I had intended,

[00:20:18] but I did notice right away that I no longer felt like I was waking up,

[00:20:22] like I was being hit by a truck.

[00:20:24] Some of my fatigue was improving and slowly by slowly,

[00:20:28] I felt like as my airway wasn't swelling,

[00:20:30] I was noticing improvements like my nasal breathing was getting a lot better.

[00:20:34] I didn't have to breathe through my mouth anymore.

[00:20:36] And I also started going back to work.

[00:20:41] I picked up a part-time job, which at the time I still felt exhausted,

[00:20:45] but it was just the fact that I was able to show up for this part-time job

[00:20:49] was huge compared to before.

[00:20:50] It was like I was stuck in this black hole.

[00:20:53] I started using the money from my work to pay to go to the clubs again.

[00:20:57] I started trying to make an effort to promote my music.

[00:21:00] I started riding my bike again, tried going back to part-time school.

[00:21:05] And so I was noticing these little improvements,

[00:21:07] but I still kind of had this unshakable brain fog.

[00:21:10] And I felt like something wasn't quite right as it went past the six-month mark,

[00:21:15] I realized that I was developing a worsening pain,

[00:21:18] which was localized to a very specific region of my neck

[00:21:21] because it felt like my airway was basically lapsided,

[00:21:24] like I was breathing like this.

[00:21:26] So I'd wake up with pain in my neck.

[00:21:28] I realized that there was a bit of lip incompetence, meaning

[00:21:32] when I try to close my lips to rest,

[00:21:34] I have this kind of open lip posture.

[00:21:37] And so I have to basically exert effort to keep my mouth shut.

[00:21:42] And so I reached back out to the orthodontist and I said,

[00:21:46] look, I don't think that the surgery was done correctly

[00:21:48] and I want to get second opinions from surgeons

[00:21:50] that focus specifically on the airway.

[00:21:53] And so obviously it was very frustrating.

[00:21:56] I was like, I went through this huge surgery

[00:21:58] and ended up improving my situation but not resolving it.

[00:22:02] But that was actually something that there were some people on the

[00:22:05] server that were warning about me about.

[00:22:07] They said, you shouldn't go to this local, random local surgeon

[00:22:10] because we've had other people in our server

[00:22:13] that didn't go to these fancy elite airway surgeons

[00:22:17] and it didn't fully solve their problem.

[00:22:19] And now they have to get the surgery revised.

[00:22:22] And so that was basically what the situation that I ended up being.

[00:22:25] And this was like end of 2022 going into 2023

[00:22:29] was when I was like, I think that this wasn't done properly

[00:22:33] and I want to get it revised.

[00:22:34] During this time, the hell period as you put it,

[00:22:37] you might explaining or sharing with us some of that experience

[00:22:40] which you were dealing with, how it felt mentally, physically,

[00:22:45] the exhaustion, the frustration, the discomfort.

[00:22:50] Yeah, so this was kind of like 2020 going into 2021

[00:22:54] and then before my first surgery.

[00:22:57] Like I said, I felt like I was basically just in a survival mode

[00:23:00] and like I was didn't have any real energy, but I was just

[00:23:06] trying to continue seeing doctors and functioning off of like

[00:23:10] exhausted fumes of my nervous system.

[00:23:12] So I was always nervous.

[00:23:14] I'd wake up and just immediately feel like fatigue in my body.

[00:23:20] And that's the thing too is it's very difficult to describe

[00:23:23] subjectively to people that haven't experienced this

[00:23:25] because I felt severely dissociated.

[00:23:30] So another one of the terms that I came across online,

[00:23:33] it was called derealization where I didn't just feel like

[00:23:37] this fog was in my brain, but I felt like this fog was

[00:23:40] the entire world basically seemed like a fog.

[00:23:42] And so even my vision was blurry, things were out of focus.

[00:23:47] My hearing wasn't as clear as it used to.

[00:23:50] My reflection didn't look right to me.

[00:23:55] It was just this all encompassing sensory fog that I was in.

[00:23:59] So I'd get up and basically just have no motivation for the day.

[00:24:03] And I basically felt like my whole life was just me trying to find

[00:24:07] ways to pass time and kill time until I could start to sleep better.

[00:24:12] But that was the thing was because I felt so emotionally flatlined

[00:24:16] and anadonic things that used to bring me enjoyment,

[00:24:19] like working on music, watching movies,

[00:24:22] going to the club and hanging out with friends

[00:24:25] felt like meaningless to me.

[00:24:26] It wasn't something that brought me any sense of enjoyment anymore.

[00:24:29] So I would say those were a lot of the main symptoms of what I was dealing with.

[00:24:33] After my second surgery, I did a follow-up sleep study.

[00:24:37] I consulted one of the surgeons.

[00:24:39] His name was Dr. Casey Lee from the Sleep Apnea Surgery Center in California,

[00:24:43] like in the Bay Area.

[00:24:45] And he said, I want you to go see the sleep neurologist and do a follow-up sleep study.

[00:24:50] And so I did a sleep study and when this doctor,

[00:24:54] Dr. Rama from I think it was the Sleep and Brain Institute,

[00:24:57] he said, oh, like is this what a typical night of sleep is like?

[00:25:00] Because this probably been five or 10 years since I've seen this much

[00:25:04] disruption in the sleep architecture.

[00:25:05] He basically said every time I would,

[00:25:09] you can even see like on this,

[00:25:10] it basically has a track from the different stages of sleep.

[00:25:14] Every time I would hit like REM or deep sleep,

[00:25:16] it would just go directly back into light sleep.

[00:25:19] And so at the time, I think I slept all night,

[00:25:22] probably eight or nine hours, but I woke up just absolutely destroyed.

[00:25:27] I mean, I remember like I would describe it as like I wake up feeling worse

[00:25:31] than before I went to sleep and it was just this constant thing

[00:25:34] that I couldn't escape from.

[00:25:36] Even before 2020, I still had this fatigue,

[00:25:40] but it's not like I really understood how normal it was

[00:25:43] to be that exhausted all the time.

[00:25:45] But I would say it was 2020 was just when I felt like my body

[00:25:48] just couldn't go on anymore.

[00:25:49] That's when I started describing it as like waking up in the morning,

[00:25:53] I felt like I was being hit by a truck.

[00:25:55] And that was a common symptom too that a lot of other people online

[00:25:59] were describing as like just waking up and immediately

[00:26:02] like just feeling fatigued all over your body.

[00:26:05] It's like I'd wake up and the very first thing

[00:26:06] that would go through my mind is just being aware of like

[00:26:09] how tired I am and how awful my sleep quality was.

[00:26:12] Considering everything that you've been through up until now,

[00:26:15] including the surgery, the first surgery,

[00:26:17] not going according to plan,

[00:26:19] how has life been for you these days,

[00:26:21] especially in comparison to what it was in 2020?

[00:26:26] My life is immensely different than it was back in 2021,

[00:26:30] but I still, I basically just feel like I'm functioning

[00:26:34] like a snail's pace.

[00:26:36] And so it's like I don't really feel like

[00:26:38] it's quite as like this constant pain

[00:26:41] where it's like I'm always nervous,

[00:26:42] but at the same time, it sucks.

[00:26:45] And I guess what really drove me and still drives me

[00:26:48] to feel better was when I would notice improvements,

[00:26:51] and let's say I'd work on music and I was like,

[00:26:53] wow, like I'm really good at making music.

[00:26:55] I wanna see where this leads

[00:26:57] if once I fully solve this problem.

[00:26:59] And so I kept becoming more optimistic

[00:27:01] where I was like, you know,

[00:27:02] I think this is what I wanna do.

[00:27:03] I wanna do music.

[00:27:05] And you can, if you listen to my music

[00:27:07] and it's origin of sticks, STYX,

[00:27:10] you can find me on any platform, streaming platforms,

[00:27:14] Spotify, SoundCloud, YouTube, Apple Music,

[00:27:18] but I have a lot of these themes of sleep deprivation,

[00:27:23] trauma, dissociation,

[00:27:24] and kind of like how you mentioned earlier,

[00:27:26] this sense of being in like a waking dream state

[00:27:29] and how all of your senses are distorted

[00:27:32] when you're that tired.

[00:27:33] It's crazy to me to think that everything

[00:27:36] that you've been going through physically,

[00:27:38] your body feeling the way that it's felt,

[00:27:40] the motivation to drive the exhaustion,

[00:27:43] mentally not there, not 100%,

[00:27:46] not anywhere near being 100%.

[00:27:49] But in spite of all that doing what you did

[00:27:51] because you shared something with me beforehand.

[00:27:54] The fact that you did this crazy bike ride

[00:27:57] from Arizona to California.

[00:28:00] How were you able to do that

[00:28:02] while going through the things

[00:28:03] that you were going through?

[00:28:04] What was your motivation?

[00:28:05] What was your drive?

[00:28:06] And what was that experience like?

[00:28:08] So yeah, basically when I was 17

[00:28:11] and my senior year of high school

[00:28:13] when I was trying to make these lifestyle changes,

[00:28:15] I started cycle commuting.

[00:28:17] So I didn't really drive much.

[00:28:19] I didn't feel comfortable driving

[00:28:21] because my concentration wasn't great.

[00:28:23] But again, so I didn't really realize

[00:28:24] how abnormal that was.

[00:28:26] It just gave me anxiety.

[00:28:27] And so instead of say getting rides from my family,

[00:28:31] I started just cycling to and from school.

[00:28:34] And I kind of had this realization

[00:28:37] where I was like maybe if I just set off on my bike

[00:28:41] and do this totally crazy trip,

[00:28:42] it would reset my brain.

[00:28:44] I'm not going to be depressed anymore.

[00:28:47] And so I think it was too.

[00:28:51] Because I was so bored at the time,

[00:28:52] I would just started doing long distance cycling

[00:28:55] where I would just be like

[00:28:57] I don't really feel like sitting in my room

[00:28:58] and twiddling my thumbs

[00:28:59] because I'm not motivated enough

[00:29:00] to read books or work on music.

[00:29:02] So I'm just going to aimlessly ride my bike around Phoenix.

[00:29:06] But it kind of just came out of this sense of frustration

[00:29:10] where I was just like I'm just so done with school.

[00:29:14] I just want to go out and do something exciting.

[00:29:17] And so it was that fall when I finished

[00:29:22] my senior year of high school

[00:29:23] that I started out on my bike trip.

[00:29:25] And I definitely think that my fatigue was affecting me.

[00:29:28] But again, I would mostly notice it as like

[00:29:31] I would sleep like 10 hours.

[00:29:32] I'd wake up and my legs would still just be super sore and achy.

[00:29:36] I'd ride my bike literally all day.

[00:29:39] And I just wasn't getting the enjoyment

[00:29:41] that I thought that I would from it.

[00:29:43] It was kind of like how I mentioned,

[00:29:45] I went later I went to trade school with this mentality of

[00:29:47] oh maybe if I try engaging with my hobby of music and audio

[00:29:51] then I won't be depressed anymore.

[00:29:53] But I just felt more tired and more depressed.

[00:29:56] And so that was why I kind of after my bike trip

[00:29:59] I was like that was admittedly kind of disappointing.

[00:30:01] I thought that I would enjoy that and get more out of it.

[00:30:04] Like it still is, I mean don't get me wrong,

[00:30:06] that's still like an awesome story.

[00:30:08] Probably like the coolest thing that I did

[00:30:09] that I can share with people.

[00:30:11] That is one hell of a ride.

[00:30:14] How many days or weeks did that take you?

[00:30:16] And how many hours did you clock in on the road?

[00:30:19] What was the distance and the length of that overall trip?

[00:30:23] So it was like a week.

[00:30:26] It was a little over 400 miles

[00:30:27] and then I think I was riding like 50 or 60 miles a day.

[00:30:30] So I basically wake up, take my tent down

[00:30:34] and I had like a trailer that had like all my backpacks

[00:30:38] and everything so I would bike and carry this trailer

[00:30:40] that had like my tent, food, sleeping bag

[00:30:44] as well as just whatever else.

[00:30:46] It was basically like backpacking since I was a Boy Scout.

[00:30:50] I did backpacking trips

[00:30:52] and so I knew how to plan accordingly.

[00:30:55] But yeah it was I would basically just wake up,

[00:30:58] ride you know a few hours,

[00:31:00] stop somewhere like at lunch,

[00:31:02] ride a few more hours, stop somewhere,

[00:31:04] put in my tent and basically just did that for like a week

[00:31:07] until I made it to San Diego.

[00:31:08] I actually had purchased Naps online

[00:31:11] that had the trail laid out specifically for cyclists

[00:31:15] and so I wasn't on like major roads.

[00:31:17] It was mostly just back roads.

[00:31:19] A lot of times they were so few cars

[00:31:22] I could just take up the whole like road

[00:31:24] and sometimes for I remember there were times

[00:31:27] where for miles I wouldn't see other people.

[00:31:29] So but actually what was interesting

[00:31:32] and this is why I ended up going back was

[00:31:36] I had planned, I bought tickets for a concert

[00:31:39] to see the band Depth Grips in LA.

[00:31:42] And I went from San Diego,

[00:31:44] I started riding my bike up the coast

[00:31:46] and I got about halfway from San Diego to LA

[00:31:48] and had an incident where it was like

[00:31:51] one of the spokes on my wheels

[00:31:54] like cracked or something

[00:31:56] and I was in this situation where

[00:31:58] I didn't want to carry this to a bike shop.

[00:32:00] I actually stopped at a bus stop

[00:32:02] and I'm like, hey, my bike broke down.

[00:32:04] I'm trying to get to the next city

[00:32:05] so I can find a bike shop

[00:32:07] and he was like, well, you can't bring your bike

[00:32:09] on onto the bus.

[00:32:11] He said you could but you had to have it

[00:32:13] like strapped to the front of us

[00:32:15] but I was like, I can't because it's broken.

[00:32:17] That's the point.

[00:32:17] That's why I had to get it to the next city

[00:32:19] and he was like, well, then you can't come on the bus.

[00:32:21] So it was kind of just a split second decision.

[00:32:24] I left the bike

[00:32:26] and basically took the bus from Santa Clemente to LA

[00:32:29] stayed at a hostel there for a few days

[00:32:31] and got to see my concert

[00:32:33] and then basically took a train back from LA to...

[00:32:37] Well, actually I took it from LA to Flagstaff

[00:32:40] and one of my family members picked me up there.

[00:32:42] After embarking on a once in a lifetime trip like that

[00:32:46] and finishing it, hitting your mark

[00:32:49] what were you going through?

[00:32:50] How were you feeling inside?

[00:32:51] What did that do for you?

[00:32:53] It's one of those things where after accomplishing that

[00:32:56] it definitely did make me feel more confident.

[00:32:57] That's why too I felt so confident

[00:33:00] I can't wait till I solve this problem

[00:33:02] and fix my health

[00:33:03] because if I can do stuff like this

[00:33:05] despite these issues

[00:33:07] it makes me feel like I can't be defeated

[00:33:09] like I'm a mortal or something.

[00:33:11] Is it fair to say that that bike ride

[00:33:13] helped motivate you and put extra fuel in your tank

[00:33:16] to want to seek out ways to better your situation

[00:33:19] to better your condition and to get well

[00:33:22] or did you have anything else in your life

[00:33:24] that was motivating you, driving you

[00:33:26] and giving you a will to want to get well and get better

[00:33:31] as opposed to throwing the towel

[00:33:33] give up on life and just say

[00:33:35] you know what forget it I'm done.

[00:33:38] That was one of the things

[00:33:39] but I would definitely say it was the music

[00:33:41] that was more influential where

[00:33:44] as I was going on and making more music

[00:33:46] then I was just feeling like wow like this

[00:33:48] I think I have a talent like this

[00:33:50] is what I want to do with myself.

[00:33:51] When I look back at say the music

[00:33:53] and on a lot of my album covers

[00:33:56] you'll even see this later

[00:33:57] I incorporate elements from my health issues

[00:34:00] with my music

[00:34:03] and so it's I view it as almost like

[00:34:04] a kind of audio journal

[00:34:05] where it's like if I have to look back

[00:34:07] at those few years

[00:34:08] what do I have to show for myself?

[00:34:09] Well it's like this is what I did with myself.

[00:34:12] And so on some of my album covers

[00:34:15] I wore like my Halloween costume

[00:34:17] where I dressed up in like the black metal corpse paint

[00:34:20] and for me it was kind of symbolic

[00:34:21] of how I felt like the walking dead at the time

[00:34:24] and then some of my album covers

[00:34:26] I use like scans of my jaws

[00:34:28] or like one of them has like a picture

[00:34:30] of like my palette expander

[00:34:33] and so I was able to incorporate

[00:34:35] like the health with the music

[00:34:36] and basically can use that

[00:34:37] to like look back at what I've accomplished.

[00:34:39] And so anybody listening right now

[00:34:41] and curious as to what you do

[00:34:44] if they want to hear some of your music

[00:34:45] can you point them in a direction

[00:34:48] to where they can find and listen to

[00:34:51] the work that you have available right now?

[00:34:53] Yeah it's pretty much on any platform.

[00:34:55] I do have a link called the Linktree

[00:34:59] which is basically if you go to Linktree

[00:35:01] then there's like five or six links that come up

[00:35:03] but if you just search my project origin of sticks

[00:35:07] origin of STYX

[00:35:10] on pretty much any streaming platform

[00:35:12] then it should come up.

[00:35:14] Bandcamp too for people that prefer

[00:35:17] to download the mp3s.

[00:35:19] I've actually also had like a handful of

[00:35:21] people that wanted to press like physicals

[00:35:25] so I worked with a guy from California

[00:35:28] and he pressed CDs

[00:35:30] and I basically signed my CDs

[00:35:32] so I view it as basically like a signed audio journalist

[00:35:35] how I described that.

[00:35:36] So if you search that on Bandcamp

[00:35:37] you can actually get like some of my physicals as well.

[00:35:40] For sure and that information

[00:35:42] will all be included in the show notes

[00:35:44] so anybody listening right now who's interested in

[00:35:48] what Ethan has going on

[00:35:50] the work and the projects that he has available

[00:35:53] they can check out the show notes

[00:35:55] and all those links and information

[00:35:57] will be provided right there.

[00:35:59] So we know you had the first surgery

[00:36:01] which didn't go according to plan unfortunately.

[00:36:05] Now how was that second surgery supposed to play out

[00:36:07] or do you have any idea

[00:36:09] what the process is going to look like?

[00:36:11] Yeah I guess firstly I'll explain

[00:36:14] what went wrong the first surgery

[00:36:15] and then what is proposed to resolve the issue.

[00:36:20] So I consulted two surgeons

[00:36:22] like I said the first was from the Center Sleep Apnea

[00:36:26] surgery center in the Bay Area

[00:36:27] and the second was

[00:36:30] it was called Arnett Gunson Facial Reconstruction

[00:36:32] in Santa Barbara.

[00:36:35] Me and my mom definitely liked the second surgeon more

[00:36:37] because he went super in depth.

[00:36:40] He sat down with us for basically a couple of hours

[00:36:43] and explained everything in detail

[00:36:45] but he basically said firstly like

[00:36:47] I'm not trying to sell you the surgery

[00:36:48] tell you you need this

[00:36:49] but I would have done the surgery differently

[00:36:51] and this is what I would have done.

[00:36:53] He explained that the purpose of the face

[00:36:56] is to breathe eat and communicate

[00:36:58] but if there's some kind of an issue

[00:37:00] with the way that that face develops

[00:37:02] then the body has to basically exert extra effort

[00:37:05] and compensate in order to do those things.

[00:37:08] He did tell me too that he said

[00:37:11] I might have other patients

[00:37:12] with your similar airway size or jaw structure

[00:37:15] that might not be as debilitated as you are

[00:37:17] because you seem very receptive to problems

[00:37:20] that are happening in your body.

[00:37:22] The word he used was called interoception

[00:37:24] which basically means kind of being hyper aware

[00:37:26] of things that are wrong

[00:37:29] and so what he basically proposed

[00:37:32] was that basically when if a jaw is receded

[00:37:37] then it develops more into this kind of

[00:37:39] vertical pattern as opposed to developing

[00:37:42] down forward and out like this

[00:37:44] and so what he basically proposes

[00:37:46] is by doing a larger rotation on the upper jaw

[00:37:50] because the surgeon that I was referred to before

[00:37:53] I think just didn't have the skill and knowledge

[00:37:55] to perform that kind of movement.

[00:37:57] He can basically get the lower jaw forward

[00:38:00] and then bring the chin back.

[00:38:02] If you can kind of see right now

[00:38:05] my lower jaw is actually still receded

[00:38:07] but my upper jaw is like sufficiently forward

[00:38:09] so I'm kind of breathing like this

[00:38:11] and that's why there's a bit of a discomfort

[00:38:14] in my chin here where it basically feels

[00:38:16] like the skin is not in the right place

[00:38:20] and so basically by bringing the chin back

[00:38:23] and rotating the upper jaw more

[00:38:24] he can get the lower jaw forward

[00:38:26] to a sufficiently position

[00:38:29] so that I'm not like breathing like this all the time.

[00:38:32] That's basically what the issue is

[00:38:34] but so I never felt like my symptoms

[00:38:37] got to the same extreme as before the first surgery

[00:38:41] but at first things were starting to improve

[00:38:44] I started working again

[00:38:46] but I was really struggling to work

[00:38:49] especially like going into the winter

[00:38:51] I would have sinus problems

[00:38:53] and so I remember there were times

[00:38:55] where I'd show up to work

[00:38:56] and basically just space out the whole time

[00:38:58] and barely have any recollection

[00:39:00] of what happened after work

[00:39:02] and so I was feel like less aware of myself

[00:39:05] and my surroundings

[00:39:07] there are times I felt like my co-workers

[00:39:09] would even check in on me

[00:39:10] make sure that I was doing okay

[00:39:12] or I would try doing something

[00:39:13] and then I would just be lose focus

[00:39:15] like what am I doing

[00:39:16] like I can't do this right now

[00:39:18] so it was like I was still just barely functioning

[00:39:21] I think that I was just so smart

[00:39:23] that I could kind of compensate for that

[00:39:27] but then I really struggled

[00:39:30] like let's say at the time

[00:39:32] my mom wasn't super supportive

[00:39:33] of just jumping into the surgery

[00:39:35] she was like I want to explore everything else first

[00:39:38] because maybe you're just mentally ill

[00:39:40] and so I saw a lot of psychotherapists

[00:39:44] like pretty much I spent 2023

[00:39:46] like seeing all kinds of different psychotherapists

[00:39:49] doing all kinds of different therapeutic techniques

[00:39:53] I even was hospitalized a handful of times

[00:39:55] because of problems where I started to content learning

[00:40:00] self-harm and binge drinking

[00:40:03] and so I was put on antidepressants

[00:40:05] which sometimes would help a little bit

[00:40:07] and I could focus more on my music

[00:40:10] but at least for me what's interesting

[00:40:12] is I always noticed a very strong correlation

[00:40:15] where even if my sleep improved just a little bit

[00:40:18] it was like my whole experience of the world would change

[00:40:21] so back in the winter

[00:40:22] when I was having these sinus problems

[00:40:24] I started taking the bus to work

[00:40:26] because I didn't feel comfortable riding my bike

[00:40:28] because my concentration was so poor

[00:40:31] and once they started to improve

[00:40:34] or when it went into the spring

[00:40:36] I started being able to breathe through my nose better

[00:40:38] and I started cycling again

[00:40:40] but I had this kind of incident

[00:40:42] where I woke up

[00:40:44] and I was hoping I could catch up on some sleep

[00:40:47] but when I woke up

[00:40:47] I felt like my mind was stuck in mud

[00:40:50] and detached from my body

[00:40:51] so I started riding my bike to work

[00:40:54] but everything in the world fell wrong

[00:40:55] I felt like I had just stepped onto a Universal Studios movie set

[00:40:59] kind of like in the Truman Show

[00:41:01] and I basically just started panicking on the side of the road

[00:41:04] texted my boss

[00:41:05] and I was like

[00:41:05] I'm having a panic attack right now

[00:41:07] and I don't think I should be at work

[00:41:09] and so I kind of had this realization

[00:41:10] and where I'm like

[00:41:11] why am I risking my life

[00:41:13] riding my bike to a minimum wage job

[00:41:15] when my concentration is so bad

[00:41:17] if I fix my sleep breathing problems

[00:41:19] soon, like in a few years

[00:41:20] I'm going to be touring clubs all over Europe

[00:41:22] and so I was like

[00:41:23] this doesn't just doesn't really make sense to me

[00:41:26] I ended up leaving that job

[00:41:27] and that was when I went

[00:41:29] did all these different kinds of psychotherapy

[00:41:33] tried all these different anti-depressants

[00:41:36] but again it was

[00:41:37] I felt I was just still fighting this constant uphill battle

[00:41:41] and so that's really what it took

[00:41:42] for my mom to take me seriously enough

[00:41:44] and realize like okay

[00:41:46] definitely this can't just be a mental thing

[00:41:48] like I think that this needs to be treated physiologically

[00:41:53] and so as of right now

[00:41:54] it was like I've been doing some freelance work

[00:41:57] here and there for people online with my music

[00:42:00] but I actually just

[00:42:02] am starting a new job next week

[00:42:05] where I'm trying to collect signatures

[00:42:07] for some kind of political campaign

[00:42:09] even though I'm not super involved in politics

[00:42:11] but I feel like if I could just spend a few days a week

[00:42:15] where I'm basically just talking about people

[00:42:19] talking politically

[00:42:20] and asking them questions about what their beliefs are

[00:42:23] and why they're voting the way that they're voting

[00:42:25] and so for me I don't really think

[00:42:27] that's going to be particularly difficult to manage

[00:42:29] but it's only a two month campaign

[00:42:31] so it's not like I have to do this all year

[00:42:34] then after that I can kind of take a break and reassess

[00:42:37] maybe just you know at least for me

[00:42:39] my plan is that once I get the revision surgery

[00:42:41] and if it does what I expect it to do

[00:42:44] then I'm going to be able to go back

[00:42:45] to working at the library

[00:42:47] start to get back to riding my bike again

[00:42:49] or I mean ideally go back to driving

[00:42:52] and I want to promote at the library and work full time

[00:42:56] so that's really where I'm at now

[00:42:58] and what I want to do once I resolve it

[00:43:00] I would consider myself a freelance audio engineer

[00:43:03] in the sense that I have my own music project

[00:43:05] Origin of Sticks

[00:43:06] I produce my own music

[00:43:08] and then I DJ my own music

[00:43:09] so I mean if I could get booked as say Ethan Hackett

[00:43:13] and I can play whatever you want me to play

[00:43:15] but if you're booking me as Origin of Sticks

[00:43:17] I only play the music I made myself

[00:43:19] because I try to stand out from other DJs

[00:43:21] but the goal eventually

[00:43:23] I have DJs here and there at raves locally

[00:43:25] but the plan the dream is that

[00:43:28] I want to basically tour all over

[00:43:29] and help other people with their music

[00:43:31] in their studios as well as touring

[00:43:34] you know being able to see what the club scene is like

[00:43:36] in Amsterdam and Berlin and London and whatnot

[00:43:40] and basically be able to explore

[00:43:41] the club scene and the rave scene

[00:43:43] in these different countries

[00:43:45] I'm not too sure if we touched on this

[00:43:47] but with your condition

[00:43:49] was this something that you were born with

[00:43:52] or did this develop over time?

[00:43:55] Yeah that's kind of its own rabbit hole

[00:43:58] so one of the things for example

[00:44:01] when I consulted with this orthodontist

[00:44:04] that put this expander on me

[00:44:06] was he said you know

[00:44:07] do you do know that you have a tongue for us

[00:44:09] and I said I know

[00:44:10] I understand that's part of the problem

[00:44:12] and why my jobs didn't develop

[00:44:13] the way that they should have

[00:44:15] what I actually learned is that

[00:44:17] orthodontics which is about straightening teeth

[00:44:22] that you know came about

[00:44:23] in like the early 20th century or something

[00:44:26] but for the longest time in human history

[00:44:28] our teeth weren't really particularly crooked

[00:44:31] and so especially like early early humans

[00:44:34] if you look at their skulls

[00:44:36] they have straight teeth

[00:44:37] their bites are good

[00:44:38] and they have these like large robust jaws

[00:44:42] and so I learned that

[00:44:44] there are certain factors now

[00:44:45] that influence our jaws

[00:44:47] to not develop as large as they used to

[00:44:50] one of the things is

[00:44:51] it was from the work of a British orthodontist

[00:44:55] where he actually calls himself an orthotropist

[00:44:57] orthodontist it means correct teeth

[00:44:59] or straightening teeth

[00:45:00] but he created this school of thought

[00:45:03] which is about correct facial growth

[00:45:07] his name was John Mu

[00:45:08] and I think he started researching this

[00:45:10] in the 50s or the 60s

[00:45:12] and he believed that a lot of factors

[00:45:14] like the fact that we're no longer breastfed

[00:45:17] as long as we used to

[00:45:18] because when a child a baby is breastfed

[00:45:21] that basically gets encourages them

[00:45:22] to get this tongue posture

[00:45:24] where their tongue is up

[00:45:25] and suctioned up on the roof of their mouth

[00:45:27] and can encourage their jaws

[00:45:29] to grow to be wider

[00:45:30] as well as things like

[00:45:32] more people mouth breathe

[00:45:33] because we live indoors more

[00:45:34] just contract allergens

[00:45:37] our foods are softer

[00:45:39] because if we grew up

[00:45:41] in as hunter-gatherers

[00:45:43] then we would chew tougher foods

[00:45:45] and have to chew for a long time

[00:45:46] which could help encourage our jaws

[00:45:50] to develop in younger times

[00:45:52] so all of these I learned were factors

[00:45:54] but for me particularly

[00:45:55] the issue mostly had to do with

[00:45:57] I had asthma as a child

[00:45:59] and so that kind of predisposed me

[00:46:01] to mouth breathing

[00:46:02] if you're breathing through your mouth

[00:46:04] and you don't have this posture

[00:46:06] where your mouth is closed

[00:46:07] your tongue is up on your roof of your mouth

[00:46:09] you're breathing through your nose

[00:46:10] then that is what kind of encourages

[00:46:12] your jaws to develop to be more narrow

[00:46:15] set back in your jaws

[00:46:16] and then you're

[00:46:17] there's not enough room in your mouth

[00:46:19] for all your teeth

[00:46:19] and that's what causes teeth crowding

[00:46:21] as well as just the

[00:46:23] the lisp and the tongue thrust

[00:46:24] that I grew up with

[00:46:25] I would say are the other two big factors

[00:46:27] and these days

[00:46:28] are you taking anything

[00:46:29] to help with your sleep

[00:46:31] changing up your pillowcase

[00:46:32] your mattress

[00:46:34] CBD oils

[00:46:35] sleeping pills

[00:46:37] anything like that?

[00:46:38] Yeah

[00:46:39] I mean I've experimented

[00:46:40] with a lot of medications

[00:46:42] both antidepressants

[00:46:43] and then also different sleeping pills

[00:46:47] for me it's like

[00:46:48] there are times

[00:46:49] where I could fall asleep naturally

[00:46:50] but I would get very anxious

[00:46:52] so I would lay in bed

[00:46:54] and I would feel really tired

[00:46:57] but at the same time

[00:46:58] I couldn't fall asleep

[00:46:59] and it was kind of like

[00:47:00] if I get up

[00:47:00] then I'm not really motivated enough

[00:47:02] to do anything

[00:47:03] but I can't really fall asleep

[00:47:04] just laying here

[00:47:05] so I try and find things like

[00:47:07] weighted blanket

[00:47:08] I put on some ambient music

[00:47:09] try and focus my mind on

[00:47:11] otherwise my mind would just start running

[00:47:12] I get super anxious

[00:47:14] so one thing I would do

[00:47:15] is just smoking cannabis

[00:47:17] which is legal in my state

[00:47:18] like fully legal

[00:47:20] but otherwise there were

[00:47:22] all kinds of sleeping pills

[00:47:23] I have tried

[00:47:24] the one that probably helps me

[00:47:26] fall asleep the fastest

[00:47:28] is ambient

[00:47:29] but I can't take that

[00:47:30] for too many nights in a row

[00:47:31] because I feel like

[00:47:33] it just ends up making me

[00:47:34] feel more groggy and dissociated

[00:47:36] but I do kind of like

[00:47:37] cycle different sleepings like that

[00:47:40] and how is it looking for

[00:47:41] that second surgery right now

[00:47:43] do you have anything set in stone

[00:47:45] a timeline

[00:47:46] a date in specific

[00:47:47] or you're still trying to work that part out?

[00:47:50] I don't have a date

[00:47:51] I'm just hoping later in the year

[00:47:54] like I said

[00:47:55] I consulted this other surgeon

[00:47:57] like last month

[00:48:00] this is kind of the problem too

[00:48:01] this is with American health care

[00:48:04] is that a lot of the

[00:48:07] airway focused surgeons

[00:48:08] are out of network

[00:48:10] he explained this in an interview

[00:48:11] where he said that

[00:48:14] insurance reimburses

[00:48:15] about the same cost for

[00:48:17] wisdom tooth removal

[00:48:18] as it does for jaw surgery

[00:48:19] and so that's why

[00:48:20] the surgeon that I went to

[00:48:22] who did my jaw surgery

[00:48:23] mostly just does simpler procedures

[00:48:24] like wisdom tooth removal

[00:48:26] and I didn't feel like

[00:48:26] he really had the skill

[00:48:28] so that basically inherently

[00:48:29] makes it even harder

[00:48:30] to get insurance coverage

[00:48:31] than it already is

[00:48:33] if I'm lucky enough

[00:48:34] to get insurance coverage

[00:48:35] I mean I would do it tomorrow

[00:48:36] but I would expect

[00:48:37] that that's going to be very difficult

[00:48:39] so right now

[00:48:39] I'm trying to put together

[00:48:40] like a very comprehensive

[00:48:42] medical history

[00:48:43] talk to all my doctors

[00:48:44] getting together

[00:48:45] all my diagnoses

[00:48:47] and you know

[00:48:49] hopefully I can get that later this year

[00:48:51] one thing that I noticed

[00:48:53] while listening to you

[00:48:54] take us through your story

[00:48:56] and some of the things

[00:48:57] that you've been dealing with is

[00:48:59] that it seems like

[00:48:59] you've always had a drive

[00:49:02] and a will

[00:49:03] you were determined to figure out

[00:49:05] what it was that was wrong with you

[00:49:08] you were trying to find answers

[00:49:10] you were actively seeking out answers

[00:49:13] in ways to better your condition

[00:49:15] was there any time

[00:49:16] any point in your life

[00:49:18] going through this

[00:49:19] from the beginning

[00:49:21] through that hell period

[00:49:22] up until the present

[00:49:24] where you had lost hope

[00:49:26] and you just wanted to

[00:49:27] lay it all down

[00:49:28] I mean I've described it

[00:49:31] I always try staying proactive

[00:49:33] in improving my situation

[00:49:35] but I would struggle

[00:49:35] with suicidal thoughts

[00:49:37] but that was never something

[00:49:38] that I wanted to act on

[00:49:39] it was more of like

[00:49:40] intrusive thoughts

[00:49:42] that I would get

[00:49:43] kind of disturbing

[00:49:44] thoughts like that

[00:49:46] like I said

[00:49:46] I was hospitalized a handful of times

[00:49:49] because content warning

[00:49:50] I was cutting myself

[00:49:52] and drinking too much

[00:49:55] but I would say

[00:49:56] it was really

[00:49:58] like back in my chronic illness life

[00:50:00] in 2021 when

[00:50:03] I just felt like

[00:50:05] some of my friends

[00:50:06] were worried about me

[00:50:06] because I wasn't really leaving

[00:50:08] my house much

[00:50:09] I wasn't going out

[00:50:10] and doing any things anymore

[00:50:11] but for me it was like subjectively

[00:50:13] even if I felt 5 or 10% better

[00:50:15] from using a CPAP

[00:50:16] or a BiPAP machine

[00:50:17] that was enough to where I get up

[00:50:18] and sit down

[00:50:19] and try and work on some music

[00:50:21] so there were times

[00:50:22] like I had that temptation

[00:50:23] to give up

[00:50:24] but I feel like I always

[00:50:27] would try to motivate myself

[00:50:28] and stay proactive

[00:50:29] in my situation

[00:50:30] in any way that I could

[00:50:31] I still feel very limited

[00:50:33] in what I could do

[00:50:34] but like I said

[00:50:35] I always try and find

[00:50:36] ways to stay proactive

[00:50:38] in my situation

[00:50:39] as well as improving

[00:50:40] my life and my situation

[00:50:42] one thing I've been working on too

[00:50:44] is just trying to get better at

[00:50:47] talking to people

[00:50:48] and working on my social anxiety

[00:50:50] because I remember mentioning before

[00:50:51] how I would show up to clubs

[00:50:53] or show up to an event

[00:50:54] and I was very quiet

[00:50:56] people would ask my friends

[00:50:58] why I didn't talk much

[00:50:59] and so it's

[00:51:01] it's kind of an uphill battle

[00:51:04] but I'm just trying to put myself

[00:51:06] into more situations

[00:51:07] where I can slowly work on that

[00:51:11] so let's say for example

[00:51:12] like even walking down the street

[00:51:15] I had there was an incident

[00:51:17] the other day

[00:51:17] where somebody waved to me

[00:51:19] and said hello

[00:51:20] and I kind of had this realization

[00:51:21] that this person just said hi to me

[00:51:23] and it was such an incident

[00:51:24] that can part of a day

[00:51:25] and then just moved on

[00:51:26] and didn't think anything about it

[00:51:28] whereas for me

[00:51:28] even just saying hi to a person

[00:51:30] felt like this huge deal

[00:51:32] and so I was like

[00:51:32] I'm going to try

[00:51:35] not even introduce them

[00:51:36] but just greeting more people

[00:51:37] as I walked by

[00:51:38] and so then that went to

[00:51:40] well now next time I go to the store

[00:51:42] instead of just picking out my stuff

[00:51:44] and leaving

[00:51:44] I'm going to tell the cashier

[00:51:45] to have a good day

[00:51:47] and then that went from

[00:51:48] okay now I'm going to try

[00:51:49] engaging in some kind of small talk

[00:51:50] with the cashier

[00:51:51] or try even

[00:51:54] and then try working myself

[00:51:55] into introducing myself

[00:51:56] and how can I have

[00:51:58] like a lasting friendship

[00:51:59] with this person

[00:52:00] so that's basically

[00:52:01] what I've been working on recently

[00:52:04] like I said

[00:52:04] I still feel like it's just

[00:52:06] I'm just kind of moving

[00:52:07] in a snail's pace

[00:52:07] and like I'm just a fraction

[00:52:09] of what I feel like I could be

[00:52:11] but that's just all my

[00:52:12] subjective experience

[00:52:15] so hopefully I'm going to start this job

[00:52:18] for this political campaign

[00:52:20] that'll only be a couple of months

[00:52:22] and only a few days a week

[00:52:24] and then I can save up

[00:52:25] with the money that I save up for that

[00:52:27] and I can go to the club more

[00:52:29] try working on my interactions

[00:52:31] as well as just

[00:52:33] saving up more money

[00:52:33] for more music equipment

[00:52:35] so I'm trying to work on

[00:52:37] building a studio right now

[00:52:39] that's mostly just what I have

[00:52:41] what's going on right now

[00:52:42] while waiting for the surgery

[00:52:44] I remember one time

[00:52:45] when I was younger

[00:52:46] I was kind of like shocked

[00:52:47] because let's say if I was

[00:52:50] at the grocery store with my mom

[00:52:51] then she could just so easily

[00:52:53] like start small talking

[00:52:54] with the cashier

[00:52:55] or to the next person in line

[00:52:56] and I'm like how do you just talk

[00:52:58] to random people like that

[00:52:59] like for me it was just baffling

[00:53:01] but that's kind of the goal

[00:53:02] is I'm hoping that as I expose myself

[00:53:04] it just becomes second nature

[00:53:05] and that's something I have to think

[00:53:06] or even be afraid about

[00:53:08] I want to thank you again Ethan

[00:53:10] for sharing some of your struggles

[00:53:13] your challenges

[00:53:14] and the ways that this condition

[00:53:17] the sleep apnea

[00:53:18] that you've been dealing with

[00:53:19] has affected your life

[00:53:21] but not only that

[00:53:22] but how you were able to cope with it

[00:53:24] ways that you were able to deal with it

[00:53:26] the surgery that you had

[00:53:28] what went wrong with it

[00:53:29] and the hopes for the second surgery

[00:53:32] and how it's going to correct those issues

[00:53:35] hopefully you're able to get that lined up

[00:53:37] and in place sooner than later

[00:53:39] you have anything else you want to add

[00:53:41] or some final words before we wrap this up?

[00:53:45] Yeah I mean I just hope that

[00:53:47] well firstly thanks for having me

[00:53:48] and I just hope that

[00:53:50] everybody that listened

[00:53:51] was able to enjoy it

[00:53:52] or get something out of it

[00:53:53] and I hope that the people that do listen

[00:53:55] if they follow my music project

[00:53:58] Origin of Sticks

[00:54:00] then they are able to tie in

[00:54:02] a lot of my stories

[00:54:03] and my experiences

[00:54:04] and they can see how that relates to my music

[00:54:06] because there's definitely

[00:54:07] a very strong correlation

[00:54:08] between the things I went through

[00:54:09] and the kind of output

[00:54:11] so you can find me anywhere

[00:54:15] all streaming platforms

[00:54:17] Spotify, YouTube, Bandcamp

[00:54:19] I have like a link tree

[00:54:21] and then if you can also reach out to me

[00:54:23] over SoundCloud Messenger

[00:54:26] or my email which is originofsticks.gmail.com

[00:54:30] that's pretty much it thank you

[00:54:31] thanks again so much for having me

[00:54:33] and letting me share my story

[00:54:36] It was down the rabbit hole indeed

[00:54:38] one psychiatrist called it ADHD

[00:54:42] another doctor depression

[00:54:44] but something wasn't adding up

[00:54:47] and Ethan took it upon himself

[00:54:49] to find those answers

[00:54:51] he was on survival mode

[00:54:54] gas tank on E

[00:54:55] exhausted fumes

[00:54:57] but still not wanting to give up

[00:54:59] despite his energy levels being low

[00:55:02] body fatigued

[00:55:03] and as he said it emotionally flatlined

[00:55:07] how important is a good night's sleep

[00:55:10] we might even take it for granted

[00:55:12] we all know what it feels like

[00:55:14] for us going a day or two

[00:55:15] with little rest

[00:55:17] you can't focus

[00:55:18] agitated

[00:55:19] weak

[00:55:20] some even start hallucinating

[00:55:22] sleep deprivation can cause hallucinations

[00:55:25] amongst other things

[00:55:26] and the sleep study Ethan was involved with

[00:55:29] showed the doctor more disruptions in Ethan's sleep

[00:55:32] than he's seen in over five

[00:55:33] for probably even 10 years

[00:55:35] throughout all of this

[00:55:37] Ethan did what he could

[00:55:39] when he was able to do it

[00:55:41] cycling from Phoenix Arizona

[00:55:43] to San Diego California

[00:55:46] that's one hell of a ride

[00:55:48] in a once-in-a-lifetime experience

[00:55:51] he checked that one off

[00:55:53] also a vocational in audio engineering

[00:55:56] and being a freelance audio engineer

[00:55:59] he's got his music project

[00:56:01] Origin of Sticks

[00:56:02] producing and DJing his own music

[00:56:05] the links to check it out

[00:56:06] and listen to his work is in the show notes

[00:56:09] Ethan has dreams

[00:56:11] he has goals

[00:56:12] and that's the tour all over the world

[00:56:14] from Berlin to Japan and Amsterdam

[00:56:17] hitting every continent

[00:56:19] and hopefully soon

[00:56:21] he's able to line up that second surgery

[00:56:24] Ethan

[00:56:25] my friend

[00:56:27] you are

[00:56:28] a Giant Amongst Us

[00:56:30] hope you guys enjoyed the show today

[00:56:32] want to wish you all a great rest of the week

[00:56:35] if you found value in it in any way

[00:56:37] if it resonated with you

[00:56:39] you can always give it a rating

[00:56:42] you can share your thoughts by visiting

[00:56:44] giantsamongstus.com

[00:56:47] or checking out the YouTube channel

[00:56:49] where I'm piecing together audio clips

[00:56:52] and starting to do more with that

[00:56:54] we always look forward to your feedback

[00:56:57] in ways that we could improve the show

[00:56:59] what you like about the show

[00:57:00] what you don't like about the show

[00:57:02] it's all good with us

[00:57:04] because ultimately we're trying to keep this thing going

[00:57:06] and we're trying to keep this thing growing

[00:57:09] we're gonna catch up and do this again real soon

[00:57:12] I'm not gonna hold you up too much longer

[00:57:14] you guys stay safe

[00:57:15] you guys stay sane

[00:57:17] enjoy that good weather

[00:57:19] and before I go

[00:57:20] if you would like to be a part of the show

[00:57:24] and share your story

[00:57:27] or maybe even a story of someone in your life

[00:57:29] that has impacted you in a positive way

[00:57:32] you can always reach out to us via email

[00:57:35] I'd be happy to connect

[00:57:37] until next time

[00:57:39] and very soon

[00:57:41] peace

[00:57:45] do

[00:57:50] looking for a sign

[00:57:53] to know I'm on the right road

[00:57:57] ain't seen no signs